andylancaster3000
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| posted on 21/2/11 at 12:37 AM |
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Few Omex wiring questions
Hi all,
Building a loom for an Omex 600 at the moment and have a few questions.
1. Crank sensor. Could someone confirm the correct polarity for a standard Duratec VR sensor by description, wire colours or diagram?!
2. Slightly confused by the pin out description for the crank sensor. Is pin 7A (labeled crank sensor) the signal and 8A (labeled timing ground) the
ground from the crank sensor?
3. How is it best to use the screen in the cable for the crank sensor? Is it left disconnected or connected to an earth at the ECU end? If I were to
have a bulkhead connector how does this affect how the screen should be used?
4. What is the pinout on the standard Ford EDIS4 aged coil? I have a connector with 3 wires: green/red; black; green/yellow. I assume the black is a
switched 12V and the others are signals but which of the two ignition pins on the ECU do these go to?
5. What is the approximate current draw on the above coil. (Just trying to determine how big the wires need to be!)
6. In the example circuit diagram it shows a fuse in the 12V switched live to all the sensors. Is this entirely necessary? Am I likely to risk damage
to the ECU without it. The 1amp fuse for the ECU supply will be used.
Oh and has anyone got a plug for the Duratec ECU coolant sensor knocking around?
If the above can be answered I'll be a happy bunny as I can get the loom finished tomorrow night!
Thanks in advance...
Andy
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jeffw
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| posted on 21/2/11 at 06:10 AM |
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Ring Omex, they are very helpful.
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snapper
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| posted on 21/2/11 at 06:32 AM |
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I can only answer 2 of your questions.
Shielded wire is earthed one end at the ECU
Coil pack, I used 10amp fuse
For the ECU which is Megajolt in my case a 7.5 amp was recommended.
If you are going wasted spark then the coil pack wiring is outer wires left or right pair middle wire is power in.
I will check when I get to work as I have the diagrams there.
You can check the Megajolt site as they have coil pack and EDIS wiring diagrams.
Looking into the coil socket no 1 pin coil pair A middle no 2 pin 12V+ no 3 pin coil pair B
Power from the ignition switch is fed to both coil pack and ECU to reduce signal noise
Earths are joined at one point to reduce signal noise and I run a thick cable from the one point to the battery again to reduce noise or earth looping
and to have a solid good earth.
does the Omex do the work of the EDIS or do you need the EDIS if so the PIP & SAW need shielded wire earthed one end.
My biggest problems in ECU fitting to a Pinto was the plug to VR sensor, the wires kept breaking in the plug causing misfire, cured by buying the
right cable from Triggerwheels and supporting the plug and VR sensor with an ally strip and heat shrink.
The original loom for the ECU, coil pack & EDIS was a bit Heath Robinson and caused signal errors so I remade it using decent wire and good
shielded wire for the sensors and EDIS correctly earthed.
No problems so far.
[Edited on 21/2/11 by snapper]
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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atspeed racing
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| posted on 21/2/11 at 01:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andylancaster3000
Hi all,
Building a loom for an Omex 600 at the moment and have a few questions.
1. Crank sensor. Could someone confirm the correct polarity for a standard Duratec VR sensor by description, wire colours or diagram?!
2. Slightly confused by the pin out description for the crank sensor. Is pin 7A (labeled crank sensor) the signal and 8A (labeled timing ground) the
ground from the crank sensor?
3. How is it best to use the screen in the cable for the crank sensor? Is it left disconnected or connected to an earth at the ECU end? If I were to
have a bulkhead connector how does this affect how the screen should be used?
4. What is the pinout on the standard Ford EDIS4 aged coil? I have a connector with 3 wires: green/red; black; green/yellow. I assume the black is a
switched 12V and the others are signals but which of the two ignition pins on the ECU do these go to?
5. What is the approximate current draw on the above coil. (Just trying to determine how big the wires need to be!)
6. In the example circuit diagram it shows a fuse in the 12V switched live to all the sensors. Is this entirely necessary? Am I likely to risk damage
to the ECU without it. The 1amp fuse for the ECU supply will be used.
Oh and has anyone got a plug for the Duratec ECU coolant sensor knocking around?
If the above can be answered I'll be a happy bunny as I can get the loom finished tomorrow night!
Thanks in advance...
Andy
1. Doesn't matter which way around it goes.
2. Yes they are the correct wires for the crank sensor. As i said before it doesnt matter which way around they go.
3. Most of the time i dont use the screen. Ive never had a problem. As long as you are using resistor spark plugs and avoid the HT leads you wont have
an issue.
4. The centre pin is the 12v ign fed supply the outer 2 are switched earths from the ecu. Terminal 1 on the plug will be 1A violet. Terminal 3 on the
plug will be 12A Yellow.
5. The draw is minimal. I use 8 amp wire. its only thin stuff.
6. Just make sure the ECU is fused.
Simple answers. Hope this helps. If you have any more questions just give me a call i'd be happy to help 01268 773377
Ian
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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flak monkey
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| posted on 21/2/11 at 03:57 PM |
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It does matter on the crank sensor. I know from experience. Basically it will work properly one way around and not the other  Same as with
megasquirt basically.
I can't remember which way I wired mine though! I tried both, one way the timing was right, ther other the engine would barely run and the
timing was a mile out. The sig
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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andylancaster3000
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| posted on 23/2/11 at 01:38 PM |
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Thanks for the reply gents.
Re. question 4. Which pin is no. 1 on the coil plug?
I haven't made use of the supposedly very good Omex support yet so I may well have to. (Not ignoring Atspeed who have also been very helpful so
far!!)
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flak monkey
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| posted on 23/2/11 at 01:46 PM |
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Middle pin is power.
Then the pins either side correspond to the HT conntections on that side too. So one side is 1 and 4 and the other 2 and 3.
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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andylancaster3000
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| posted on 23/2/11 at 01:56 PM |
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I see. But when looking down on the coil packwith the connector pins facing down, which of the two sides corresponds to which pair of cylinders. I.e.
is the left one 1 and 4 and vice versa or the other way round?
Cheers
Andy
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andylancaster3000
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| posted on 23/2/11 at 01:57 PM |
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I've just worked out what you mean, misread what you typed, apologies!!!
The pin on the the left corresponds to the HT connections on that side. got it!
[Edited on 23/2/11 by andylancaster3000]
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ColinM
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| posted on 10/3/11 at 03:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Ring Omex, they are very helpful.
Oh how funny? Omex helpful? You must either be joking or work for them.
I bought their 600 back in Sept last year at what £500 ish? inc loom and a garage fitted it along with a new 2.0L Zetec engine in my kit car. Got it
running eventually when Omex bothered to download a basic map to us and since then I've spent another £500 on having the Omex ecu tuned by a
professional garage, (no names but you'll all know them) and it's still not right. Each time I call Omex for help and advice I get the
same reply, "Oh Richard's very busy he'll call you back". Made at least ten calls to them but I don't think he knows how
to get an outside line or dial a number. Leastways neither I nor anyone else I know that's had dealings with them have ever had a call back or
any sensible help from them for a normal car. Now if you've got a race or track day car it's a different story, they really enjoy messing
about with them, but normal road cars? Not interested and the level of support from Omex is zero.
Got my car booked in for another tuning session (£300 ish) tomorrow and this'll be the last one with the Omex. If they can't get it
running properly then I'll ebay the Omex and buy something else.
IMHO not a particularly user friendly company
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scutter
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| posted on 10/3/11 at 03:53 PM |
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Colin, shame to hear you have had a bad time with Omex, I brought an old 500 ECU and they couldn't have been more helpful. Sent maps to myself
and the rolling road direct.
I'd be more worried about your tuner,as it took all of 2 hrs to set up my ST170 including playing with the VVC engine from scratch. I know the
600 has more settings, but shouldn't have taken that long.
I don't work or know anyone who does work for omex, just a happy customer.
ATB Dan.
The less I worked, the more i liked it.
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atspeed racing
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| posted on 10/3/11 at 05:05 PM |
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first story ive heard of anyone having problems with omex customer support. ever.
did you always try to ask for richard? richard is boss of the company, and although knows the system extremely well - he is hard to get hold of, we
was once fortunate enough to speak in person. your best bet would be to speak to andy, who is technical advisor - and extremely good at his job.
out of all the companies we deal with, omex are by far the best we deal with. its one of the best selling points of the ecu, outstanding customer back
up and support.
we tune a mixture of cars, from road cars to race cars. omex have always helped out regardless of the car, or its state of tune. e.g. this week we
have been having problems with a very standard 205 gti and its idle valve set up, we have had numerous phone calls, emails etc. i would consider the
customer back up nothing less than exceptional. Omex is by far our preferred system, we use it on our own cars, road and race. 600s and 710s. i have
recently witten magazine articles based on and around tuning and set up of the omex 600 system.
when we ave had suspect ECU problems - a new ECU has arrived on our doorstep next day for test.
firmware problems - custom ecu chips have been made specifically for the car.
software problems/help advice - omex ALWAYS help with the issue, phone or email. they sometimes request the map, or a log file. and 99% of the time
spot the problem and can offer ways to resolve it, or simply carry out the necesary changes.
basically they cannot do enough to help, and i know hundreds of cases where everyone else has said the same.
also by seeing your post count of "1" suggests you have gone out of your way to intentionally express your opinions of omex. so that said,
and this being such an extremely rare case, perhaps you need to look further into why this has only happened to you and no one else?
is the wiring loom one of omexs? or was it a plug and tails and self assembly loom? majority of problems we come across in this job are down to
installation, we call it "PICNIC" = problem in customer not in car.
and finally, what is the problem you are having?
regards
- colin.
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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ColinM
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| posted on 10/3/11 at 06:49 PM |
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Thanks Atspeed for a professional's point of view, maybe I've been unlucky then?
A bit more background. Firstly I can see how with this being my first post, it could be construed as my intention to join the forum just to knock
Omex. That's not the case at all. I've been a long term poster on PH under the same user name so you can check me out there if you want. I
only came across this forum a few days ago and joined today and it was just "luck" that one of the threads I read today happened to be
this one, partly of course because it's a subject that's relevant to me since I've been having problems with Omex.
I not aware of the personalities in Omex, just when I first called them for some info last summer I was told Richard was the man to speak to. I did
talk to him at that time and placed an order with him for the Omex 600 and their loom, but when we received it that was when we started to have
problems. Even though he knew which engine it was for, it arrived with no base map and that took us a week or two to get from Omex.
My basic set up is that I was changing a Sierra 1.8CVH engine for a 2.0L Zetec in a Royale Sabre but due to my work commitments a buddy who runs a car
repair business did the work for me. I paid him proper commercial rates for doing this, so not done as a favour or on the cheap. Well it was a bit
cheaper than normal maybe but still the basic engine change cost me just about £2.5K all in.
He had no experience of after market ECU's and relied on advice from Omex when he could get hold of somebody and eventually got the car running,
but it was very rough and poor on power. I took delivery of the car from him since he'd gone as far with it as he was able to - he's great
on carbs and was always trying to persuade me to fit a RV8 ibnstead of the Zetec, but the ecu was beyond his comfort zone.
When I got the car back it was running rough so I called Omex for advice and that's when the problem with communications just got worse - after
repeated calls I just couldn't get to speak with anybody who knew what they were talking about and no I wasn't rude or abusive.
The situation right now is that I've taken the car to a rolling road tuner (c£500) and the power is good, 140bhp and 145lb/ft of torque but the
overrun and especially cold running are very juddery and rough. The car's now booked into another session with the tuner and we'll see if
they can sort it out, but since we're now coming to prime time of year when kit cars are on the road and not in the garage, I want this sorted
now or I'll change the ECU for something else.
Hope that explains things a little better? And I don't have a downer on Omex, I just have a downer on any company that doesn't communicate
with their customers.
I will say your positive comments about Omex have heartened me a little and I just wish I'd spoken to you as an Omex expert earlier.
We'll see what happens next, but don't be surprised if you get a phone call
[Edited on 10/3/11 by ColinM]
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atspeed racing
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| posted on 10/3/11 at 07:07 PM |
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hi colin
well as i say, its first case ive heard of any problems with omex customer support. there are "other" ecu manufacturers ive had the
pleasure of dealing with, who quite frankly wouldnt wee on you if you was on fire, its almost as if they are offended you asked for help! whenever we
have spoken to omex, even in our early days operating as a business, the help and support given was outstanding. now the problems we phone omex with
are much more technical, that usually leave andy scratching his head for a while, which in a way i guess is a good thing, but by swapping log files
and data back and fourth they can usually sort the problem remotely.
are you able to send me the cal via email? i can take a look at the map, see if there is anything clearly wrong with the set up and perhaps advise.
over run conditions are usually very easy to sort. cold start can be a little trickier, takes time and fettling to get right. but the problem is
mapping a car is like building a house - if the foundations are shit, everything you put on top is shit! point im making is if the initial set up
wanst correct, the map wont be either. it will run, sure, but not correctly.
the zetec is a very common engine used, there shouldnt be any real difficulty. so as a guess i would think something somewhere is conflicting. i.e. if
one part of the map is telling it to do A, and one part is saying no do B. A and B will be working against each other.
no disrespect to the tuner, is this a system they commonly tune? general rule is use the system your tuner is happiest using.
- colin.
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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flak monkey
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| posted on 10/3/11 at 07:26 PM |
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I found Omex very helpful. I always dealt with Andy, all via email and couldnt have found him more helful to be honest!
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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subevo
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| posted on 10/5/11 at 05:59 PM |
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just paid for the atspeed groupbuy omex 600.
swayed me by saying omex customer support is good.
ive phoned 4 times so far and it seems andy is the one(and maybe only one)to talk to.everyone else seems to pass you on to him.even for the simplest
of questions.
im sure im going to test omexs customer service to its limits soon once i get my ecu.he! he!
andy even phoned me back after a collegue took my number on his behalf.wait of 15mins.cant beat that .so far so good.
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atspeed racing
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| posted on 10/5/11 at 07:23 PM |
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martin is also pretty good at tech support, but andy is the main tech guy. so if andy is unavailble, try martin.
or if all else fails, give us a call if we dont know we wont fumble an answer, we will say.. "sorry, thats an andy question" lol but
fair chance is we may be able to help.
- colin.
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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jeffw
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| posted on 10/5/11 at 08:29 PM |
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I've just dealt with the directly because I needed a different code version as I'm running the ECU cable to the DL1 logger. I rang them
up and I had the new chip in my hands the following day. Excellent service.
I strongly suggest that you cancel you RR session and get the car down to ATspeed. It will be cheaper in the long run.
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Dusty
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| posted on 11/5/11 at 09:23 AM |
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Another supporter of omex customer service here. I had great trouble finding a good rolling road down in sunny Devon five years ago. Omex spent much
time on the phone helping me understand how different factors in the soft/hard ware influenced the fuel corrections. They were able to check my maps
same day by email returning corrections and amending my maps in hours. I asked for and they did a firmware update last year for my omex 600. I sent
the unit back to them and it arrived back done, post paid and no charge! That cost them money.
I would agree with other posters that the unit needs to be wired up and set up with care and some knowledge. ie crank sensors are polarity sensitive.
All the senders need the omex to be calibrated to interpret their data output correctly.
Adjustments to cold start/running take days to get smooth as you can only test on a cold engine. Adjustments to transients also take time driving
rather than rolling road time but can make the drive as smooth as a tin top.
Any other ecu, emerald/MBE/DTA/etc will have to go through the same processes. Perhaps the most vital thing is to find a rolling road that knows and
has experience of omex. They should be the people to get your car running properly. It's a hands on, not telephone job.
Where about are you in the country? I'm sure a local omex user can give you the location of a RR near you that does omex well.
[Edited on 11/5/11 by Dusty]
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atspeed racing
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| posted on 17/5/11 at 11:44 AM |
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we are in essex, 20 mins from junction 29 off the M25 - outside of london.
- colin
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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