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Author: Subject: Swingarm for Reverse-Trike
scootz

posted on 8/3/11 at 09:26 PM Reply With Quote
Swingarm for Reverse-Trike

Following discussions with some knowledgeable guys on here, I'd come to the conclusion that simply bolting a production-bike swingarm onto the back of the chassis is not the best way forward.

One of the main concerns being the sideways forces for which the swingarm was not originally designed.

Problem is, I've spoken to all the custom swingarm fabricators that I can track down and none of them want to work on something outside their comfort-zone.

Sooooooo... unless anyone can come up with a suggestion for an alternative manufacturer (professional or otherwise), then I think I'm just going to have to guess which OEM motorbike swingarm is the strongest and give it a try.

Can anyone give any thoughts as to which design they think looks (or know is) the strongest? I'm thinking along the lines of Busa or ZZR1400...





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flibble

posted on 8/3/11 at 09:32 PM Reply With Quote
Back in the day metmachex used to make some seriously well braced swingarms for not a lot of , worth a look?
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JC

posted on 8/3/11 at 09:33 PM Reply With Quote
Have you thought about a non-bike manufacturer? Z cars, for example, have trailing arms on their mini subframe kit that could perhaps be modified?

[Edited on 8/3/11 by JC]

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scootz

posted on 8/3/11 at 09:38 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by flibble
Back in the day metmachex used to make some seriously well braced swingarms for not a lot of , worth a look?


Spoke with them... not interested in the job





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scootz

posted on 8/3/11 at 09:39 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JC
Have you thought about a non-bike manufacturer? Z cars, for example, have trailing arms on their mini subframe kit that could perhaps be modified?



Cheers... will have a look.





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dave

posted on 8/3/11 at 09:52 PM Reply With Quote
How about MEV or RTR they are doing some things with reverse trike jobbies.






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MikeRJ

posted on 8/3/11 at 09:56 PM Reply With Quote
The R1 swingarm is a pretty sturdy item e.g. YAMAHA YZF R1 5PW 2002 2003 REAR SWINGARM SWING ARM on eBay (end time 09-Mar-11 18:44:54 GMT)

If the chassis is going to be somewhat wider than the swing arm at the back, it wouldn't be too difficult to add some braces from the end of the swing arm back to the chassis with e.g. rod ends on each end. As long as you keep the chassis ends of the braces in-line with the swing arm pivot it will work without binding, and this would effectively triangulate the swing arm.


[Edited on 8/3/11 by MikeRJ]

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scootz

posted on 8/3/11 at 09:57 PM Reply With Quote
Had a look at RTR's site - looks like a Yamaha R1 swingarm.





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scootz

posted on 8/3/11 at 10:00 PM Reply With Quote
Never seen one from the side before... looks too long for me!








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MikeRJ

posted on 8/3/11 at 10:05 PM Reply With Quote
I think that is the main problem with mid engine trikes like this, you can't use the space taken by the engine and rear suspension for anything else, it just has to be tacked onto the end of the passenger area which makes it very long.

How about using a BMW shaft driven rear swing arm and having a front mounted engine with a proshaft? That would make it quite a bit shorter.

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dave

posted on 8/3/11 at 10:18 PM Reply With Quote
I like the look of the car but agree it looks to long. There must be some weight and stress on the single shock. Looks like excellent engineering though.






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designer

posted on 8/3/11 at 10:21 PM Reply With Quote
Do a search for the Vortex three wheeler. It has a strong swing arm, made of square tube, with th coil/damper mounted above it.

There is a Yahoo group on it.

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smart51

posted on 8/3/11 at 10:36 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
I think that is the main problem with mid engine trikes like this, you can't use the space taken by the engine and rear suspension for anything else, it just has to be tacked onto the end of the passenger area which makes it very long.


unless you put the seats either side of the engine, which would make it quite wide. Not impossibly so, though.






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MikeRJ

posted on 8/3/11 at 10:45 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by smart51
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
I think that is the main problem with mid engine trikes like this, you can't use the space taken by the engine and rear suspension for anything else, it just has to be tacked onto the end of the passenger area which makes it very long.


unless you put the seats either side of the engine, which would make it quite wide. Not impossibly so, though.


A V twin would probably be a better choice for this configuration than an in-line 4.

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scootz

posted on 8/3/11 at 10:54 PM Reply With Quote
Cheers.

Another thing I don't like about the tR1ke is that it uses the rear wheel from the R1 too. Again, that wheel was made to deal with a completely different directional force... I don't think I'd have the confidence to push it around a high-speed corner for fear of it exploding on me!





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scootz

posted on 8/3/11 at 11:00 PM Reply With Quote
I'm just finding a wee pic for the Vortex Trike, but certainly looks like a more substantial back end! Not sure I'm convinced enough to hand over $90 for a set of plans just yet.








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chrsgrain

posted on 9/3/11 at 07:58 AM Reply With Quote
The guy who runs blackjack cars in Cornwall has been producing trikes for years, Richard Oakes I think his name is, and he has engineered his own - might be worth getting in touch with him - though I expect he'll try and sell you a blackjack zero!

Chris





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kipper

posted on 9/3/11 at 10:32 AM Reply With Quote
reverse trike

I have used a Honda VFR800 swinging arm in my trike.(see my archive)
I agree, it is hard to make a mid engined trike without it looking long.
The only way I can see to make it short is to have your pedals in front of the front axle as some American builders have done.
Denis.





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designer

posted on 9/3/11 at 12:07 PM Reply With Quote
The Vortex swingarm is made from 2 x 1 for the main 'U' and then 1 x 1 for the damper frame.

Look here:

http://www.briery.com/vortex/index.html

http://reversetrike.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=buildprojects&action=display&thread=120



[Edited on 9-3-11 by designer]

[Edited on 9-3-11 by designer]

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blakep82

posted on 9/3/11 at 12:20 PM Reply With Quote
might be a bit overkill, but how about F1 or F2 sidecar swing arms?
with the flat tyres they run, they must be designed for side forces?
maybe contact an outfit manufacturer?





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Ratman

posted on 11/3/11 at 07:31 AM Reply With Quote
I suggest bike engine in front of the front axle driving the front wheels, then use a car trailing arm rear suspension. This gives a shorter more stable vehicle with the weight on the driving wheels. Have to keep all the weight low though or it will tip up on hard braking.
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smart51

posted on 11/3/11 at 09:10 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ratman
I suggest bike engine in front of the front axle driving the front wheels, then use a car trailing arm rear suspension.


Sound advice. A front engined FWD trike with a single rear wheel is inherently the most stable configuration.






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adampage

posted on 11/3/11 at 09:45 AM Reply With Quote
Stable yes, but as much fun? Power oversteer? Sadly no.

Stick with rear drive 'd say, and a swingarrm like this beauty!

http://www.windlesidecars.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/P1010423-300x224.jpg

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r1_pete

posted on 11/3/11 at 10:30 AM Reply With Quote
Twin shock bike swing arms are generally shorter than monos, as there is no need for the rising rate lever arrangement.

If you used two shocks at the wheel end, and angled the tops outwards, they would also compensate for some of the sideways forces.

Yam FJ1300, Suzuki GSX1400 etc. may yield something suitable.

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Ratman

posted on 13/3/11 at 10:35 AM Reply With Quote
If the engine is at the front, then the length of the swing arm doesn't matter much, because it will mostly be under the slope of the seat back. I have seen an R1 powered off-road hill climb buggy that used a long chain to drive the front wheels (4wd). I am wondering if a long chain down the centre of the vehicle would work to connect a bike motor at the front to a std bike rear end. I guess the passenger seat might have to be only for the narrowed bummed. The chain would need to run in some sort of guide (oily wood?) and it would probably stretch, and it would be noisy. A lot of compromises.. but the concept is nice and simple. Might suit a single seater trike better.

Another thought is to put the bike motor on the right side of the car, just ahead of the swing arm and run the chain to the right side of the rear wheel. Then just have a single seat on the left side of the vehicle. Would suit a big air-cooled V-twin. Nice short chassis with no special drive-train engineering. Hard to make two seater though.

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