TheKench
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| posted on 24/3/11 at 09:58 AM |
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Starting from Scratch
Hello All!
I've been browsing the forum for a while, feeding my appetite for starting something kit-car related, but haven't got round to doing
anything about it yet. However, my friend (through changing personal circumstances) is trying to get rid of a Velocity XT kit that he purchased but
never really started to make. I'm still waiting to get a list of what is in the kit from him, but as i understand it, it is:
- chassis with all body panels
- CVH with ancilliaries and Type 9
- ST170 engine
- Wilwood 4-pots up front
- discs at the back though not entirely sure of what type
When i get the full list i will put it up and see where the gaps are. I'm hoping that useful people on here will be able to give me some
pointers of where i should expect to find difficulties. As i understand it, there are some issues with the ST170 engine and its Variable Valve Timing
(oil activated?) but my friend says he knows about that and will point me in the right direction. If it seems more sensible to cut my teeth on the CVH
and save the ST170 for later, then i might do that (so long as the exhausts are on the same side).
Basically, i need to kit out my garage for suitability. It's not massive, it's a single garage, but with a bit of ingenuity and
organisation it should enough space. I have no tools or anything at the moment, but i plan on getting myself a decent set before i start. There is no
rush really! I don't see myself as a big fabricator, and i feel like welding is right out of the question - i will find someone with the Skillz
to do that for me.
My starter question is, i guess, what tool could you not do without? What will i find as the most useful thing during the build process? Is it worth
me getting a big air compressor and some tools like that? I can see this becoming a hobby that keeps me busy for some years to come...
I'm based in Somerset, so anyone who has a Velocity XT in the area might be useful. I have another friend with an MK Indy Zetec so i have a
feeling i will be seeing a lot more of him to climb all over his car!
Looking forward to hearing more from y'all. And apologies in advance for any stupid questions. Better to ask them...
Regards,
Rob
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dave-69isit
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 posted on 24/3/11 at 10:13 AM |
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welcome
hello welcome to the forum u shouldnt need a welder unless u want to make ur own mounts or exhaust but there are enought frendly people on the forum
that would do it for a beer i have never met anyone on ear that couldnt help in one way or another and we are all car nuts try to get to some
meets in your area stoneliegh show is at the end off next month
do a search on the tools its bin covered
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 24/3/11 at 10:16 AM |
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No need for a compressor. A basic toolkit to start and buy stuff as you find you need it. Plus you can often borrow tools for one-off jobs.
I would get
Reasonable sized socket sets (1/2" and 3/8 are handy, but also found 1/4 useful at times)
Spanners
Screwdrivers
Pliers (a few tpes)
Molegrips
HAMMERS (small, medium, large and soft and ........... )
I had all my spanners stolen from my garage a year ago. On the Sunday I went to a boot sale (didn't find mine) but came away with a good
selection of quality metric spanners, open ended, rings and so on, Teng. britool etc in terms of quality, for an average of 20p eack. Managed to get
some AF ones too, but harder to find. So tools do not have to be expensive, as long as you can live with non-matching sets.
As to ST, exhaust same side as CVH. If you can overcome th evalve timing issues I would do that straight off, one the car is built just use the thing!
(BUT if you can date the CVH engine, you may be able to IVA without a cat etc, THAT may be important)
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TheKench
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| posted on 24/3/11 at 10:44 AM |
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Thanks for the swift replies chaps. I confess, I hadn't thought about IVA'ing with CVH and then "upgrading" the engine at a
later date. I'm not one for pushing the regs but it might well be worth investigating. I feel like Carbs are the simplest option for someone
with my limited experience - start with something simple and then go from there right? Are there a particular set of carbs that would work with CVH
and then translate nicely to ST170? Also, as i understand it, the ST170 to Type 9 requires a few modifications... something to search for no doubt!
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Duncan Mould
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| posted on 24/3/11 at 10:48 AM |
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Welcome to the forum. Common sense is the most valauable tool in my collection. As a qualified and time served mechanic the most expensive tools in my
kit are the ones I use the most. get around some auto jumbles or visit machine mart and buy yourself some basic hand tools. I find an angle grinder
useful, but dont forget your GOGGLES. Buy a good quality ratchet 1/2 and 3/8 long breaker bar and a Toorque wrench and you should be ok.
I built my first kit car in a heighbours single garage as I did not own a garage and did ok as they have no doors and tend to be quite small. Just ask
yourself why your mate wants to get rid off it, if its lack of time thats ok but I have been screwed over by so called mates who say "It only
needs this to finish it" Yeh right.
Good luck in your quest Hope you find what you are looking for.
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flibble
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| posted on 24/3/11 at 10:52 AM |
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I'd have to say a welder is invaluable, even if it's a second hand £20 arc welder 
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TheKench
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| posted on 24/3/11 at 11:39 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Mould
... I have been screwed over by so called mates who say "It only needs this to finish it" Yeh right.
Fortunately I'm under no illusions - it's a long way from being finished! It's still not a done deal, hence this post, and so I
want to make sure that i'm not biting off more than I can chew. I don't necessarily want the last word in performance, but i want
something that i can practice my spannerwork on, and then take it from there. I want this to be more of a road-goer, a summer afternoon blat, rather
than a hard core track special. So perhaps the CVH is the best way to start, then upgrade when i get frustrated with lack of power or whatever.
Cheers again chaps (and chapesses, i'm sure there are a few around)!
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karlak
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| posted on 24/3/11 at 12:03 PM |
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The Pinto seems to be a popular choice to begin with ?
MK Indy - 2litre Duratec - Omex 600 - Jenvey throttle bodies - ETB DigiDash2
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TheKench
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| posted on 24/3/11 at 12:05 PM |
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Agreed, but if the kit has a CVH and an ST170 with it, surely i am better off choosing one of those rather than sourcing a third engine? I know
nothing though, so am gladly proved wrong.
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lotusmadandy
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| posted on 24/3/11 at 12:29 PM |
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Hi and welcome to the forum.
I would start with the cvh engine as its quite likely to be
old enough not to need a cat.Then after iva,put the st motor in.
The vvt works from a solenoid on top of the head,coozer and jake_truck have st's
in their cars and both use an input from the megajolt/megasquirt to
operate it.
The exhaust is on the same side as well.
Andy
[Edited on 24/3/11 by lotusmadandy]
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hughpinder
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| posted on 24/3/11 at 12:33 PM |
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dont forget wire strippers/crimpers,wd40,tin of grease/oil,multimeter(£5 one is ok), may need torx bits for some of the st 170 engine parts, a drill
(18v battery for preference, and at least 1 drillbit to suit the rivets you will use... Some bits of old cloth to hold bits so you dont mark them with
mole grips, and to wipe your hands on/mopup oil etc... 1 medium/fine file may come in useful.
Regards
Hugh
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karlak
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| posted on 24/3/11 at 12:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by TheKench
Agreed, but if the kit has a CVH and an ST170 with it, surely i am better off choosing one of those rather than sourcing a third engine? I know
nothing though, so am gladly proved wrong.
Sorry,
note to self: read the whole post before replying.
I did have an selfish motive anyway, as I am after a ST170 
MK Indy - 2litre Duratec - Omex 600 - Jenvey throttle bodies - ETB DigiDash2
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wilkingj
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| posted on 25/3/11 at 07:03 AM |
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Welcome to the Nut House!.
Really give the engine bit a lot of consideration.
An engine that does not require a CAT (due to its age) will require lower emission limits at Each and Every MoT in the future.
If your CVH is a Pre CAT model, (CHECK its age from the Engine No.) I would fit that, IVA it, get it on the road, then fit the 170 as a project for
the next winter (Kit Cars are NEVER finished completely ).
Thus you will have an easier time at MoT's in the future.
Last thing you want is to finish your car, especially if you fit Carbs and it fails the IVA on emissions. The long term route will be easier
overall.
Use the Search Facility on here, as most things have been done to death before. (Use lateral thinking on your search words if you dont get a result
first time)
Dont be afraid to ask, (about almost anything) there is a wealth of knowlege and experience here, and not just about cars.
Glad to see you have put your location in your profile.... It helps others to help you.
You MUST get to the Stoneleigh Show 1st -2nd May. Its the biggest show in the UK and is near Coventry. A lot of us will be there with our cars.
Visist the Luego Owners Club (and other clubs), and come and have a chat. Going to this show, will give you a LOT of information and even more things
to think about. Take a camera... if you see a good idea on a car. Photo it! You can use it to remind you what / how it was done.
You can do a lot to build your kit without a ton of specialist tools. Build what you can with what you have, then beg, borrow, or loan the rest. Ask
on here, someone may be able to help (This is where the location bit in your profile helps a lot)
What ever your budget is.... Double it! It costs more than you think. However with a kit car, you can spread it over the build time, so its not all
needed up front. ie as an when you can afford it, you do a bit more. Rome wasnt built in a day... was it!
Above all have some fun... there is a great bunch of people here.
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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TheKench
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| posted on 25/3/11 at 08:19 AM |
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Thanks again guys. I might be able to make stoneleigh, but definitely newark in June, and Exeter later in the year. I plan on making my missus sit
through as much as possible! fortunately SWMBO is very on sid
Also, just noticed the wise advice from cliftyhanger.... HAMMERS! That made me chuckle.
Once i have tracked down a CVH engine number (presuming i can) where do i go for engine age?
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 25/3/11 at 09:30 AM |
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If you do get to stoneleigh, Look out for us Luego boys (sorry percy, and girls) We usually have a camping enclave with beer and Barbi, good company
and conversations starting Saturday morning going through to Monday.
Further details of this will be posted up shortly by me on/in this section shortly.
JGG
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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SteveWallace
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| posted on 25/3/11 at 05:41 PM |
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My vote for favorite tool would be a Dremel (other manufacturers are available). Its great for getting powder coat off the inside of predrilled
holes, smoothing the edges of bits of metal, cutting the ends off things, getting rid of bits of rust and removing large amounts of skin very quickly!
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TheKench
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| posted on 26/3/11 at 07:10 PM |
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Cheers guys. This is just what I need. Any particular type of Dremel?
Also, what was the general route to go down to get proof of age of engine?
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dave-69isit
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| posted on 26/3/11 at 08:04 PM |
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aldi have one ist only around a tener
cheap bits too
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 27/3/11 at 01:18 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by TheKench
Also, what was the general route to go down to get proof of age of engine?
Letter to ford with engine number asking for proof of engine age, or I have heard of the burtons catalog being used with varying success. Unless of
course you have the vehicle log book with the engine number on it.
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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TheKench
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| posted on 27/3/11 at 01:46 PM |
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Snagless. Well, i shall let you all know how i get on! Hope to see some of you at various shows.
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richwill
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| posted on 28/3/11 at 01:40 PM |
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I have a velocity fitted with a pinto. I am in Exeter, if you want to take a look at mine just let me know. Also i sometimes get up to Taunton with
the Apple County kit car club who are based in Somerset and have regular meetings. Just look them up on the net
http://www.applecountykitcars.co.uk/.
I built mine with a basic set of tools. 10,13, 17 and 19mm spanners are what I used mostly.
Cheers Rich
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adithorp
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| posted on 28/3/11 at 01:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by TheKench
Thanks again guys. I might be able to make stoneleigh, but definitely newark in June, and Exeter later in the year. I plan on making my missus sit
through as much as possible! fortunately SWMBO is very on sid
Stoneleigh is MUCH bigger than both Newark and Exeter so well worth getting to.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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TheKench
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 09:21 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by richwill
I have a velocity fitted with a pinto. I am in Exeter, if you want to take a look at mine just let me know. Also i sometimes get up to Taunton with
the Apple County kit car club who are based in Somerset and have regular meetings. Just look them up on the net
http://www.applecountykitcars.co.uk/.
I built mine with a basic set of tools. 10,13, 17 and 19mm spanners are what I used mostly.
Cheers Rich
Thanks! Always good to have a local club. I shall look in your direction if I do get this kit (or indeed any other)! My brother is at Uni in exeter -
i don't know it very well but i expect to be down there fairly often to visit, will u2u.
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