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Author: Subject: OT: Electrics, light switch to control socket feed ?
balidey

posted on 25/1/12 at 07:54 AM Reply With Quote
OT: Electrics, light switch to control socket feed ?

I need some electrical advice please.
First off, I will NOT be doing this work, but before I speak to an electrician I want to know if I'm going to make myself sound like an idiot.

We have a new kitchen being fitted in a few weeks time. The fitters are going to wire in and fit under cupboard lights. These will be controlled by a switch for all of them and they are usually powered from the socket ring main. Our current ones are pluged in and have switches on the lamps.

In our kitchen we have a two gang switch but only one of the switches does anything, the other is dead. No idea why its there, it was like it when we moved in. Either they only had a double available at the time (its chromed) or maybe the wiring has been altered since as we have two light pendants, so perhaps they were independant pendants .

Anyway. I am wondering if we are allowed to use this spare 'light' switch to control the lights under the cupboard powered from the sockets.

Possible? (part of me thinks its not)
Sensible? (I think it is, just can't figure out how to connect the switching wire into the ring main as it is in the roof lights)

If its possible then I will start channeling a route for the wires before the kitchen goes in to save getting new units covered in brick dust.

If its not possible then I will just buy a new single gang switch for the lights.





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phoenix70

posted on 25/1/12 at 08:04 AM Reply With Quote
Not sure an Electrician would like that idea, but with a minor tweak I would be possible, you need to run the lighting from the lighting ring rather than the socket ring main.
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MikeCapon

posted on 25/1/12 at 08:13 AM Reply With Quote
Not a huge help as I live in a country where you can do your own electrics so the rules here are different. You can't build your own car though

In my last place I had four of the 10 plug sockets in the dining room controlled by a light switch. These plug sockets were used for various lamps which came on with the light switch and could be swapped, changed or switched on and off at will. Too sensible I guess...

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tegwin

posted on 25/1/12 at 08:31 AM Reply With Quote
You can't control a ring main feed from a lightswitch! Combining two supplies ir light and ring is baad practice

I have my under cabinet lights activated by a lightswitch, they get their power from the lighting circuit! This is acceptable!

If you can not get power from the lighting circuit you should fit a seperate switch with a suitable double pole isolator, this then feeds a fused outlet plate for each of your cab lights.





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slingshot2000

posted on 25/1/12 at 08:40 AM Reply With Quote
You should/will find that your sockets are fed by a 30/32amp ring circuit.
Light should be fed by a 5/6am circuit.
The practise or running lights from socket ring mains is lazy and usually done by non-electricians. This practise is often done by kitchen fitters, to avoid the extra work (and costs) in doing the installation correctly.

It is certainly possible to switch more than one 'lighting' socket via a 'light switch'. However, these sockets must be of the 'round pin' type, in either 3 or 5amp rating and wired from the lighting circuit. This is to prevent 13amp square pin plugs being inserted and so avoiding the risk of overloading the 6amp cable.
These round pin sockets are often thought of as old fashioned and out of datde,but are still readily available from most good electrical wholesaler.

This method of installation is most commonly used in public houses and resaraunts, where it is convenient to be able to switch numerous lights from one position. Look out for tale lights in pub windows and you will usually be able to spot a 3 or 5amp socket in close proximity.

It is also possible to control multiple 3/5amp lighting sockets with dimmer switches.

I hope this is helpful.

Regards
Jon

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big-vee-twin

posted on 25/1/12 at 09:25 AM Reply With Quote
If you spur off from your ring circuit using a fused spur containing a 3 amp fuse, you can then feed a lighting switch from this. But I would not use the same switch - a new separate one. If you use a switched fused spur you could use this as the switch.

Lighting switches are only rated at 10 amps some at 6 amp so you can't just connect them into the ring, this in known in the trade as a fire hazard (used that phrase before on here).

If there is no other way this will ensure your lighting circuit is correctly protected.

There is nothing wrong with doing it like this, but as previously said it is a short cut taken by some to save time and money.

Personally I would do it properly. From what your saying you would have one switch connected to the lighting circuit and the other on the same plate fed from the ring main if I understand you correctly and this is a big no-no. Lighting and ring main circuits should be kept separate and fused correctly otherwise someone later on will get injured.

I would chase out the wall and connect into the nearest ceiling rose.





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balidey

posted on 25/1/12 at 10:04 AM Reply With Quote
Thanks all for comfirming what I kind of thought.
I'll ask our fitter / sparky to see about running the under lights from the proper lighting circuit.





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JoelP

posted on 25/1/12 at 11:53 AM Reply With Quote
There are several ways to resolve this one. You can power your lights from a 3A switched fused spur. Or send a feed to the light switch from a 3A nonswitched fused spur. Or connect it properly to the light circuit.

The reason people try to avoid connecting it to the light circuit is that it can be difficult to get access to a neutral on the lights, especially if you arent getting it plastered. However, it is much nicer having the lights switched from the main switch, rather than a switch over you worktop and maybe nowhere near the door.

There is no problem at all having two different circuits in the same enclosure. On your stairs, there might be both up and down circuits in the one switch, and likewise your main consumer unit is just one enclosure, with maybe 10 circuits in it. So long as its all terminated, fused, earthed and sleeved correctly, there is no problem.





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slingshot2000

posted on 25/1/12 at 12:25 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
There is no problem at all having two different circuits in the same enclosure. On your stairs, there might be both up and down circuits in the one switch, and likewise your main consumer unit is just one enclosure, with maybe 10 circuits in it. So long as its all terminated, fused, earthed and sleeved correctly, there is no problem.


I agree with the above exactly!

The problem with mixing circuits in one enclosure occurs when there is more than one phase present, and then you have the dangers of 415/440volts if you get accross the phase. This is unlikely in a UK domestic installation, but I have seen many larger properties with 2-phase supplies and even a few with 3-phases.


Regards
Jon

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