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Author: Subject: A question of power?
pond

posted on 4/2/12 at 01:19 PM Reply With Quote
A question of power?

Hello,

I am seriously looking at buying a ready-built car, with the view to making it a hobby, therefore wanting to develop a fire-breathing monster, funds allowing!

My question is:
Out of the box, which kit manufacturer has the best chassis to cope with high power levels? I am looking at tigers and Robin Hoods at the moment, but will consider anything except Westys or Caterhams as they are too expensive second- hand!!

Another question:

Has anyone exploited the 2.5l turbo Duratec yet, as they must be getting available used by now? will they physically fit into a typical '7' type engine bay??

I am considering a RH with a Rover T series turbo engine, but am put off by research saying these engines need big money to make them powerful!

Any comments gratefully received, as knowledge is power!!!

Ta

Andy

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mark chandler

posted on 4/2/12 at 01:36 PM Reply With Quote
Buy Simons car for sale on here, 3.9 EFI rover so already approaching 200bhp, easy to add another 100bhp on these and you will have £££ to play with.

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/52/viewthread.php?tid=166006


Regards Mark

[Edited on 4/2/12 by mark chandler]

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MakeEverything

posted on 4/2/12 at 02:02 PM Reply With Quote
Pond, use the search function to look for builders already using the duratec.





Kindest Regards,
Richard.

...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...

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iank

posted on 4/2/12 at 02:08 PM Reply With Quote
Robin hoods, except the Zero (now they are GBS), are heavy and not the best designed chassis in fact some are dreadful.
Tiger are fine (afaik) excepting some dodgy bodywork fit.

Most of the others are very similar in general, with procomp (which you're unlikely to find many of second hand) or MNR are probably the best of the rest.
Dax get some very big powerful engines fitted, but again not cheap second hand.

BUT a Caterham, and to a slightly lesser extent Westfield, keep their value much better so if/when you sell you'll get more of your money back again.

Simon's car is extremely good value if you want to go the v8 route to power.





--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous

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phelpsa

posted on 4/2/12 at 02:11 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pond
Hello,

I am seriously looking at buying a ready-built car, with the view to making it a hobby, therefore wanting to develop a fire-breathing monster, funds allowing!

My question is:
Out of the box, which kit manufacturer has the best chassis to cope with high power levels? I am looking at tigers and Robin Hoods at the moment, but will consider anything except Westys or Caterhams as they are too expensive second- hand!!

Another question:

Has anyone exploited the 2.5l turbo Duratec yet, as they must be getting available used by now? will they physically fit into a typical '7' type engine bay??

I am considering a RH with a Rover T series turbo engine, but am put off by research saying these engines need big money to make them powerful!

Any comments gratefully received, as knowledge is power!!!

Ta

Andy


Is the 2.5l turbo "duratec" you talk of actually the volvo engine?






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pond

posted on 4/2/12 at 02:21 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by phelpsa
quote:
Originally posted by pond
Hello,

I am seriously looking at buying a ready-built car, with the view to making it a hobby, therefore wanting to develop a fire-breathing monster, funds allowing!

My question is:
Out of the box, which kit manufacturer has the best chassis to cope with high power levels? I am looking at tigers and Robin Hoods at the moment, but will consider anything except Westys or Caterhams as they are too expensive second- hand!!

Another question:

Has anyone exploited the 2.5l turbo Duratec yet, as they must be getting available used by now? will they physically fit into a typical '7' type engine bay??

I am considering a RH with a Rover T series turbo engine, but am put off by research saying these engines need big money to make them powerful!

Any comments gratefully received, as knowledge is power!!!

Ta

Andy


Is the 2.5l turbo "duratec" you talk of actually the volvo engine?


No Idea!

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big_wasa

posted on 4/2/12 at 02:30 PM Reply With Quote
^^ I would also think the engine your on about ie the St and Rs 2.5 lump thats badged as a duratec is volvo bassed.

If its a volvo bell housing pattern then that will be the first thing to overcome.

What about the 2.3 turbo from the mazda 3 mps. That should mount to the 2.0 Duratec bellhousing and then to a beefed up T9.

People are now getting 500bhp out of zetec's. May be easier ?

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pond

posted on 4/2/12 at 02:41 PM Reply With Quote
Thanks for the replies.

I like the look of the 'home-made' car linked to in the first reply with the 3.9 rover V8!!

I have u2ued Simon to find out if it's still available as his fleabay ad finished yesterday.

I didn't know the 2.5T ford engine, yes the unit from the STs/ new mondeos etc, was a Volvo engine.

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snapper

posted on 4/2/12 at 02:50 PM Reply With Quote
If you have not driven a 7 replica or even been in one, I would at least be a passenger in one before you commit.
150 bhp is a lot in a 7
200 bhp is exciting to say the least
300 bhp will take a particuly well set up car and a very good driver to tame
The Volvo 2.5 turbo can give 300 easy to 440 without to much trouble.

If the wheels spin in all gears most of the time and light upon the corners it's not fun anymore
IMHO





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I drink to forget
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monck

posted on 4/2/12 at 02:57 PM Reply With Quote
Id go with Snappers advise
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tomgregory2000

posted on 4/2/12 at 03:02 PM Reply With Quote
if its your "first" kit car then aim for about 150-180bhp, thats plenty to get yourself into trouble

i started out with that much power and then got bored so i then changed the engine and got myself 321bhp and it then turns the car into a rocket thats too fast for road use, with the lower hp engine you could use more of the engine all the time where with the higher hp you had to be sure it was safe to floor it

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pond

posted on 4/2/12 at 03:05 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by snapper
If the wheels spin in all gears most of the time and light upon the corners it's not fun anymore
IMHO


That sounds like EXTREMELY good fun to me!

I understand your point, and agree in some respects, however, I want a hobby not really a form of transport. I have other cars for that!

I am still unsure which way to go, but want whatever I decide to buy to be able to be 'upgraded' without throwing most of it away and starting again.

This is why I had pretty much decided on a Zetec or Duratec, but the Rover V8 sounds like it could have potential (apart I presume from the added weight of the lump)?!

Andy





It isn't rocket science........except rocket science!!

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DIY Si

posted on 4/2/12 at 03:06 PM Reply With Quote
I'd agree with Snapper. Any more than 200-250 bhp will need smooth roads and a good driver to exploit. I found my old 160 bhp BEC to be all I could put down on the bumpy roads round my way, and more than enough at times. Despite a lack of torque, it was always fun in the wet!

A well set up car will allow you to travel faster with less speed and get more enjoyment out of the finished car.

What makes you want a fire breathing monster? Do you want high power mainly for the fun of it, or do you want a fast car?

Any 7 will out handle 95+% of anything of the road regardless of power levels.





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big_wasa

posted on 4/2/12 at 03:06 PM Reply With Quote
I started out wanting the most power I could get out of my wallet

Ended up detuning it by ditching the webers and fitting injection. Still 150bhp in a 600kg car.

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macc man

posted on 4/2/12 at 03:40 PM Reply With Quote
If you are looking for out and out speed a bike engined car is hard to match. On most tracks it will leave most cars behind. For road use you will not be able to exploit massive power legaly. As said try before you buy. A 1300 seven will leave a lot of cars standing.
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pond

posted on 4/2/12 at 03:49 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DIY Si
What makes you want a fire breathing monster? Do you want high power mainly for the fun of it, or do you want a fast car?
quote:


Mainly for the fun of it!

I have never even been in a '7', so at the moment it is all congecture. I have had performance and 'fast' car before and enjoyed these for many different reasons.

I have always been a fan of bikes ( I have owned over 30 since I was 16) but have come to the conclusion that bikes are no longer my thing, being 44 now, having a young child and just getting a bit more 'sensible'.

Whatever i buy, I want it to be able to be whatever I decide I want it to be, I suppose. I also, especially at the moment, want value for money and will not spend money I don't have to, or want to!

There is an ex-racing Tiger for sale, this has everything; 200hp Zetec, Quaife, AVO coilovers, etc, but it is (obviously) a lot of money. I don't know if I want something that's all done for me, so all I have to do is drive it on the three nice days of the year!





It isn't rocket science........except rocket science!!

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monck

posted on 4/2/12 at 03:59 PM Reply With Quote
Someone told me if 200 hp aint enough for you in a 7 and you really want to terrify yourself further why not buy a super-bike as it would be cheaper
im sure a decent 1000cc bike would do 170mph+ if you had the ball's or were dumb enough

Just a thought

[Edited on 4/2/12 by monck]

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StrikerChris

posted on 4/2/12 at 04:16 PM Reply With Quote
I'm with the power limit theory.mine is approx 200bhp and awesome fun on a dry road.chuffing terrifying on anything damp.I could easily get another hundred ponies,and have the bits lying about,but never have cause not being Nigel Mansel it'd probably make me slower trying to avoid solid objects!
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pond

posted on 4/2/12 at 04:19 PM Reply With Quote
I can see the points above and agree mostly.

Surely, though, it's the WAY an engine provides its power that is as important, if not more so, than just bhp.

For instance, I can imagine a BEC is 'all hell' or nothing, a tuned 4 pot is similar only less so, but a big block (V8), even slightly tuned, will be inherently more torquey, thus being more driveable and tractable at any given moment, making it more 'all things to all men'?!

I am even thinking about making a road going show car, mainly cos I'm a show off and like attention!!





It isn't rocket science........except rocket science!!

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scudderfish

posted on 4/2/12 at 04:22 PM Reply With Quote
V8 with not much of an exhaust. Sounds fantastic even when you're not ragging it
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pond

posted on 4/2/12 at 04:29 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by scudderfish
V8 with not much of an exhaust. Sounds fantastic even when you're not ragging it


Now that IS appealing.





It isn't rocket science........except rocket science!!

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tul214

posted on 4/2/12 at 04:30 PM Reply With Quote
Have you seen 1999 Dax Rush Kit Car 4x4 chassis, suspension, Brakes,Diff & huge load of extras | eBay?

It obviously has the ability to take the power. Not sure on the 4x4 bit though.





1.6 Raw Super6 sold

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StrikerChris

posted on 4/2/12 at 04:50 PM Reply With Quote
With 200hp i'm unable to change gear as quick as the engine would like in 1st and 2nd and by 3rd I have a second to look at the Speedo and its in 3 figures.for a car used on the road surely that's enough,anymore you'll have to think about feathering the throttle cause its lighting up the tyres in those few seconds.I can't see that being fun!
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mark chandler

posted on 4/2/12 at 05:26 PM Reply With Quote
My Locost has 200bhp, very light with a bike engine and spins up slicks.

My problem is getting it to stick to the track, driver ability, grip and handling in that order is the problem, not power.

Regards Mark

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britishtrident

posted on 4/2/12 at 05:53 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pond
Hello,

I am seriously looking at buying a ready-built car, with the view to making it a hobby, therefore wanting to develop a fire-breathing monster, funds allowing!

My question is:
Out of the box, which kit manufacturer has the best chassis to cope with high power levels? I am looking at tigers and Robin Hoods at the moment, but will consider anything except Westys or Caterhams as they are too expensive second- hand!!

Another question:

Has anyone exploited the 2.5l turbo Duratec yet, as they must be getting available used by now? will they physically fit into a typical '7' type engine bay??

I am considering a RH with a Rover T series turbo engine, but am put off by research saying these engines need big money to make them powerful!

Any comments gratefully received, as knowledge is power!!!

Ta

Andy


You should get out more have been watching too much Top Gear 100 bhp in a a very light car is more than enough to frighten yourself sh@*less or have a lot of fun. Also remember weight a Robin Hood is like a truck compared to a Caterham Superlight with a Rover K.

What these cars should be about is: good ultra precise handling, lightweight with power only third on the priority list.

A badly built car badly setup Seven style car will be both frightening and unpleasant to drive.

My advice is look for an MK with a Silver Top Zetec.





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