T66
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| posted on 2/4/12 at 06:54 PM |
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2k Paint Dangers
I know we know the dangers of 2K paint, but heres a guy who didnt and was brave enough to post up his mega error, which nearly killed him.
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=14051
I was doing a small paint job a couple of weeks ago in the shed i've got two extracter fans one large one small so on i went with the job
mask on a 3M thought that will do the job and it did for the face. the bad mistake was not understanding the paint as i have always used 2K. It wasnt
till i woke up in hospital that i was told that I had to be brought back to life as my lungs had shut down and didnt know that it contains isocyante
or something like that so it's celluloss from now on. Reply With Quote
Food for thought folks.
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Stott
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| posted on 2/4/12 at 07:53 PM |
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I've read that before but as an aside, I was using PU sealant today and noticed on the tube it warns that it contains Isocyanates.
I checked all the different brand tubes I have and sure enough every one says "warning - contains Isocyanates"
I know it's not the same as misting them into a spray but still, Mad or what!
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 2/4/12 at 09:29 PM |
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Similar dangers to this have been covered before, also about 2 pack floor paint. Just see my post on this subject in this link
Two pack linky
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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blakep82
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| posted on 2/4/12 at 10:49 PM |
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IF (and thats a big if...) the mask was suitable for 2k paints as some are rated for 2k paints, something he doesn't say was whether or not he
also used the mask when he was mixing the paint! i would be VERY surprised if he absorbes enough of the nasty stuff through his eyes and skin while
doing this small paint job.
didn't read the whole thread though...
charcoal filters are good for removing livestock odours and organic vapours, from a quick googling
i don't imagine this one gives absolute protection like air fed masks
eBay Item
but much better than charcoal filters!
friend of my mum and dads used to paint curtain side trucks in australia, he said that all the painters he's ever known that have breathing
troubles usually only wear masks when spraying, but crucially, not when mixing paints, when they're standing right over mixing cups, and are
then surprised they get breathing difficulties... its essential to wear a proper mask at all times throughout the process
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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britishtrident
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| posted on 3/4/12 at 07:31 AM |
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2k paints don't affect everybody the same way but more importantly the effect on an individual changes with exposure, somebody who has not
had previously had any problems using can suddenly become more sensitive and experience a severe reaction next time they are exposed to even a
relatively low concentration.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Daddylonglegs
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| posted on 3/4/12 at 07:32 AM |
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For what it's worth, I sprayed my Locost with 2K. The conditions were as folllows:
1. Outside under a Gazebo with 2 sides covered to stop the direct wind
2. Disposable one-piece suit with elasticated hood
3. Rubber gauntlets (only used for spraying I might add!)
4. Sealed goggles
5. 2-cartridge Isocyanate disposable mask (checked fitting by using wife's nail polish remover - no smell = good seal  )
6. Wore everything whilst mixing as well as spraying
7. As soon as finished spraying, move well away from the job (upwind of course) and return after 10 mins or so
I also took my mask off with my back to the wind and made sure that the mask and goggles were downwind of me whilst waiting too.
It was a PITA and was hot as hell, but I'm still here and suffering no ill-effects. If I was doing this on a regular basis then there is no
question that I would get an air-fed mask, but for what I was doing and having read hundreds of articles on the 2K dangers, i decided I would be
OK.
Almost forgot, don't forget the neighbouring area might be affected too though so be aware, I was lucky, I had a large yard to work in away from
the house.
At the end of the day, you pays your money and takes your choice.
HTH
John
[Edited on 3/4/12 by Daddylonglegs]
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
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T66
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| posted on 3/4/12 at 08:00 AM |
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I think on the basis you were outside and using PPE then that was possible, it still excludes 2k for me as my drive is too close to my neighbours
etc.
He didnt appear to have any suitable ppe on at all.
Ive learnt something by posting this, as I would not of read the tin when buying garage floor paint, I would of opened it and started painting, and
thats my point here, we are easy caught out.
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The Shootist
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| posted on 3/4/12 at 06:02 PM |
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One more thing often missed....
One thing many forget, is that paint fumes are heavier than air. If you exhaust fans are in a window, the room will still fill with pooled vapor until
it reaches the level of the window to be caught by airflow and blown out of the shop.
Air volume should be sufficient that the fumes are diffused and you should be able to stand outside in front of the fan with no ill effects. The trick
is knowing the FE (fatal exposure) limits of the paints you work with, and the flow volume required to make it safe.
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 3/4/12 at 06:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Daddylonglegs
For what it's worth, I sprayed my Locost with 2K. The conditions were as folllows:
1. Outside under a Gazebo with 2 sides covered to stop the direct wind
2. Disposable one-piece suit with elasticated hood
3. Rubber gauntlets (only used for spraying I might add!)
4. Sealed goggles
5. 2-cartridge Isocyanate disposable mask (checked fitting by using wife's nail polish remover - no smell = good seal )
6. Wore everything whilst mixing as well as spraying
7. As soon as finished spraying, move well away from the job (upwind of course) and return after 10 mins or so
I also took my mask off with my back to the wind and made sure that the mask and goggles were downwind of me whilst waiting too.
It was a PITA and was hot as hell, but I'm still here and suffering no ill-effects. If I was doing this on a regular basis then there is no
question that I would get an air-fed mask, but for what I was doing and having read hundreds of articles on the 2K dangers, i decided I would be
OK.
Almost forgot, don't forget the neighbouring area might be affected too though so be aware, I was lucky, I had a large yard to work in away from
the house.
At the end of the day, you pays your money and takes your choice.
HTH
John
[Edited on 3/4/12 by Daddylonglegs]
Isocyanates are permanent, they don't degrade, you must NEVER eat vegetables grown in your garden, and advise your neighbours to follow suit. I
spend over £2000pa in filters to contain 2K particulates and gasses to keep the EPA happy and my neighbours alive!
2K is NEVER a DIY alternative, just too dangerous in too many ways
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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flak monkey
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| posted on 3/4/12 at 07:08 PM |
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A bit dramatic Mark...
This is the HSE guidance for working with Isocyanate paints:
http://www.hse.gov.uk/mvr/priorities/isocyanates.htm
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg388.pdf
http://www.hse.gov.uk/mvr/experience/isocyanates.htm
Isocyante isn't the same a cyanide or even an isocyanide which is systemic and builds up in your system... Long term exposure to isocyanates can
lead to sensitisation which can mean that the next 'dose' will trigger a severe asthma attack. Its not a poison as such. Unless you can
provide any documentation to support what you are saying? The HSE are tight on any sort of VOC emmission from commercial premises whether your are
sparying 2k, oil based or celly. We only spray celly at work and have the same equipment, inc airfed masks.
I can't find anything in official documentation stating any other effects than that.
Another doc from the New Zealand equivalent to the HSE:
http://www.osh.dol.govt.nz/order/catalogue/archive/isocyanatepainters.pdf
quote:
How can isocyanates harm you?
All isocyanates are hazardous substances and require care in handling. The greatest
risks are from inhaling vapours, fine droplets (aerosols) and dusts containing
isocyanates, as they irritate the linings of the nose, throat, lungs and eyes.
People exposed to isocyanates at work are at greater risk of developing respiratory
problems, such as asthma, if they breathe in isocyanate vapours or droplets of resin spray.
There is also a risk of skin conditions if there is regular skin contact with isocyanates.
Some of the health effects of isocyanate exposure include:
• eye irritation, watering and discomfort;
• irritation of the respiratory tract;
• dryness of the throat;
• tightness of the chest;
• difficulty in breathing;
• headaches;
• asthma attacks;
• reddening, swelling and blistering of exposed skin if not washed off; and
• dermatitis.
Spraying celly can lead to the same medical problems (dermatitis and asthma)
Personally I spray both, but thats my choice. It's up to the person doing the spraying to decide if they are happy to do it, do your own
research, the HSE website is a good place to start and then make your own informed decision 
[Edited on 3/4/12 by flak monkey]
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 3/4/12 at 08:02 PM |
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A bit dramatic Mark...
Not really, if used in a non purpose built booth, it cannot be contained, if ingested (eaten with food) it will really cause you major health
problems, inhalation is almost as bad, skin contact is also harmful.
A good friend and colleague was a bit cavalier with the stuff, poo pooing the dangers etc, he died at 32 as a direct result of 2k so it is a bit of a
sore point. I work with the stuff every day, but have ALL the equipment to do so, a full negative pressure booth, expensive airfed masks, disposable
overalls, spats, gloves, all the correct procedures etc. All staff have to adhere to the rules or they can work elsewhere
You can NEVER use 2K safely without at least £80K of equipment, whether the danger is to you or those around you - it is selfish and immoral.
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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Daddylonglegs
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| posted on 3/4/12 at 08:47 PM |
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I wish I'd kept my trap shut now  
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
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sdh2903
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| posted on 3/4/12 at 08:54 PM |
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At the end of the day no paint finish on anything is worth risking your health for. Pay to get it done professionally or use a less harmful product.
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 4/4/12 at 10:08 AM |
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I've been using 2k on cars and mould patterns for the last 26 years. I don't use it every day, or month, but I use it more than a few
times a year, and I'm still alive.
I use new 'dust, gas and vapour' charcoal filters every time. Not a cheap option, but at least it keeps you alive, is a lot cheaper than
the professional £80k setup that Mark uses.
Just be aware of the where the overspray and drying gases are going.
And most of all, use a bit of common sense.
The old boy who taught me to spray died of lead related illness, from a lifetime of spraying tractor paint. He was over 70yrs old, and had used a
proper mask all the time I knew him.
Cheers,
Nev.
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stevec
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| posted on 4/4/12 at 10:26 AM |
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I used to spray Gipfast and 2K about 25 years ago at a garage that had not heard of health and safety and I was probably as much to blame for using
the stuff. We had only basic masks and ordinary mechanics overalls spraying in the workshop with no ventilation. I have not had major issues
healthwise yet but am expecting longterm issues to come along and regret doing it. I would recomend all to keep away from the stuff if possible.
Steve.
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