twybrow
|
 posted on 2/5/12 at 07:03 PM |
|
|
Help after first drive with ZX12R
Hello LCB massive...! I need your help!
I just had the first drive of my kit, now with a ZX12r lump in it (yipee!), but I have encountered a few issues that I cant figure out!
1. Before I drove it, I had the neutral light on, and the car free rolled (although I was always worried neutral was hard to find). When I came to
drive it, I just could not cleanly find first... I would say I never found first, as pulling away meant a lot of slipping clutch. If I raised it
fully, at anything less than 15mph, it would stall the engine.
2. The clutch is very light, despite Barnett springs. Plus, the biting point is only in the last couple of inches of travel (my last BEC had an almost
car like feel to the clutch)
3. I now cannot get the car to stay in neutral. If I go for neutral (which I spent 15 mins trying), then I get what feels like neutral, but no neutral
light. If the car then rolls, it jumps into gear. What could be causing this?
Are there any ZX12r BEC owners down South? Any ideas of a specialist down South who would be able to sort it? After 18 months for the engine swap, I
am too gutted to look at it at the moment, and I have no idea what could be wrong. I am now left wondering if the gearbox is shagged (engine bought
from LCB)...
My Stoneleigh dreams are fading fast - give me a glimmer to hold onto!
|
|
|
|
|
MakeEverything
|
| posted on 2/5/12 at 07:05 PM |
|
|
Just sounds like linkage needs adjustment to me. I had a bike that wouldnt engage 1st without a slight roll at times, or a shift to 2nd, then first
with the engine running.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
|
|
|
wylliezx9r
|
| posted on 2/5/12 at 07:13 PM |
|
|
just sounds like the linkage needs adjusting, would probably take minutes. I am suprised the clutch is light though, i have standard springs on my
zx9r and its fine.
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.
George Best
|
|
|
twybrow
|
| posted on 2/5/12 at 07:14 PM |
|
|
How can it be the linkage? Surely as long as it is free to move the full range of movement, then it should still have the desired effect even if you
have to move the lever a lot further? I am not poo pooing your suggestion, just trying to understand how it could affect things...
|
|
|
ReMan
|
| posted on 2/5/12 at 07:18 PM |
|
|
Sounds like your not fining the correct neutral between 1st and 2nd, but anotehr one between other gears. Hence no light and it jumping out.
You really need to make sure you can find all 6 gears before you worry about the light clutch
www.plusnine.co.uk
|
|
|
twybrow
|
| posted on 2/5/12 at 07:25 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
Sounds like your not fining the correct neutral between 1st and 2nd, but anotehr one between other gears. Hence no light and it jumping out.
You really need to make sure you can find all 6 gears before you worry about the light clutch
Yeah, I know... It is the solution I don't know! 
Let me phrase it differently....
How would you go about setting up the gear linkage to ensure you had all 6 gears and neutral? Is it trial and error, or is there actual method?
|
|
|
dmac
|
| posted on 2/5/12 at 08:01 PM |
|
|
I would put the car up on axle stands and disconnect the gear linkage at the gearbox end leaving just the first rod on the spindle. Then with someone
in the car to work the clutch, start the engine and check that you can get all the gears and neutral when you move the rod by hand. If you can get all
the gears and neutral then you have a linkage problem, if not then you have a gearbox problem. If it is the linkage then check that the travel on the
linkage is enough to change the gears.
What linkage do you have, rod or cable and do you have any pictures of it?
Duncan
|
|
|
PAUL FISHER
|
| posted on 2/5/12 at 08:05 PM |
|
|
Sounds like the clutch plates could be sticking to me, when you fitted the uprated springs, did you have all the plates out to check them, they tend
to dry out when stood for a long time, remove them, soak them in oil, and refit, worth a try.
|
|
|
mark chandler
|
| posted on 2/5/12 at 09:16 PM |
|
|
Just a thought, are you going the wrong way ?
When I had my 893 blade engine I set it up to pull the lever back to go up the gears, so poke forward once for first.
Changed to a 919 blade engine, externally bigger clutch housing apart from that looks the same, however Honda had changed the internals and the
gearbox linkage works in reverse. Looking at a 919 bike the foot pedal works via a remote linkage on the 893 it's direct.
Anyway, as track only I stuck it on my trailer and went to Lydden hill bumbled down to the start and waited to set off, stuck it in '1st'
lever forward and stalled... thought odd so started the engine and poked the stick, it went forward another gear so thinking must had had a false
neutral tried to pull away.... stalled arse. To cut a long story short missed the first session as flattened the battery farting about, dragged back
to the pits and fiddled about then confusion lifted, I now pull back for first... doh !
When I put the engine in I had always selected gear from under the bonnet so never worked it out.
It does sound like you are doing the same thing, fiddle about long enough and you can find a neutral between gears if the car is stationary, also
explains jumping into gears and unable to pull away. The gearbox will feel the same way going from 6th to 1st as 1st to 6th on firm lever
movements.
Light clutch is just the ratio on the pedal, BEC clutches are designed to be operated by hands so are light by default, push a car clutch down by hand
its hard work. If you want more feel as feet are clumsy change the pivot point.
Cheers Mark
NB/ quick Google, Triumph triple direct lever, ZX12r via rods 
[Edited on 2/5/12 by mark chandler]
|
|
|
matt_gsxr
|
| posted on 2/5/12 at 09:31 PM |
|
|
Simple thought.
Oil level? When my oil level is low then the clutch sticks a bit and neutral can be tricky to find.
Don't despair, it is a small thing. Not like you need neutral to get to Stoneleigh.
|
|
|
twybrow
|
| posted on 2/5/12 at 10:37 PM |
|
|
Some fab suggestions there chaps.Thank you! I have not ventured back out yet, but she will be up on stands shortly.
Check list will include:
- oil level
- linkage slack/play
- double check the direction of the box (although as I started in neutral, I cant see how I ended up at 6th at such low speeds)
Paul - I had the clutch pack out when I fitted the springs, but I cant recall checking each plate was free, so that will be a tomorrow night job!
Mark- good memory (or use of search) on the triple vs ZX12! Seems too obvious, but those mistakes have caught me out plenty, so I will have a fiddle
(so to speak) and see what happens
dmac - good idea. One for the mrs and I on saturday! The linkage is push rods(and mostly carried over from previous engine) but I only have photos of
my old setup.
Edited to update:
Ok, hats off to Mark and dunce cap on for me! It is the other way around to my last engine. So i must have been pulling away in 6th - no wonder I
needed to slip the clutch so much to pull away! I'm glad I only went a mile or so....! I can now find neutral in the garage (engine off, but
rocking). Fingers crossed for a test drive again tomorrow!
Now I just need to sort the light clutch action (I am thinking a spring, rather than changing the pivot!).
Oil level was good, so no issue there...
Thanks again for your help!
[Edited on 3/5/12 by twybrow]
|
|
|
Norton91
|
| posted on 3/5/12 at 05:55 AM |
|
|
Hi,
Two things I'm not a million miles from you Littlehampton if you need a second pair of eyes but am on holiday till Sunday.
On all Kawasaki I have ever seen or ridden they have a neatral finder in that when stationary if the bike is neatral it will only go into first and
the other way arrond, this releases at about 2 to 3 mph.
On motoerbike gear boxes the box has the be turning for the gears to change and therefore if not the gears become stuck, to release, clutch down push
the gear lever all the way forward/back hold it there and slow release the clutch, before you get to bitting point this will allow the box to work
(slight clunk should be heard)
Lightness of clutch is all down to leverage and hydrolic ratios (bore size), remember that they are normally worked by hand and most times 1 or 2
fingers is all that is required.
Nigel
Hayabusa Fury builder and Motorcycle instructor for 18 years. Have mobile on me don't mind being call on holiday been away for 5 days so very
bored
07740187963
|
|
|
twybrow
|
| posted on 3/5/12 at 01:08 PM |
|
|
Thanks for the info and offer Nigel. I was not aware of the 'neutral finder' - that sounds like a useful feature! I am itching to get home
and take it for another blast tonight to see if I was making a fuss over nothing! Fingers crossed!
|
|
|
40inches
|
| posted on 3/5/12 at 01:19 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Norton91
On all Kawasaki I have ever seen or ridden they have a neatral finder in that when stationary if the bike is neatral it will only go into first and
the other way arrond, this releases at about 2 to 3 mph.
When I was setting up the gear change, I wasted hours trying to figure out what was wrong with the gearbox because of this
|
|
|
adithorp
|
| posted on 3/5/12 at 03:31 PM |
|
|
Putting a return spring on the pedal might help it "feel" heavier but the pedal ratios will remain the same. That results in a very binary
clutch (it's either on or off) with a sharp bite point. Altering the pedal pivots and therefore ratios will give a much more user friendly
clutch.
Be carefull with the oposite movement on the lever. If you forget and go the wrong way at speed it could be nasty. Might be worth altering the lever
arrangement.
[Edited on 3/5/12 by adithorp]
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
|
|
|
twybrow
|
| posted on 4/5/12 at 09:42 AM |
|
|
My pivot is currently already very short (floor mounted pedal) - I was wondering if extending the armn on the clutch lever (engine end) might be a
better solution... My previous enginer felt perfect on the clutch after I installed uprated springs, but I guess the Barnett springs just aren't
man enough. Other option might be an extra washer or two under each spring...?
Agreed - I am worried about shifting the wrong way too - but hopefully as it has been 18 months since I last drove it, I can re-educate myself...!
|
|
|
A1
|
| posted on 4/5/12 at 11:17 AM |
|
|
are the right springs in the clutch? should be all black (?) off the top of my head...
|
|
|
twybrow
|
| posted on 4/5/12 at 11:21 AM |
|
|
They should be - I replaced the standard Kwak springs with uprated versions (10% stiffer apparently)....
|
|
|
Peteff
|
| posted on 4/5/12 at 12:30 PM |
|
|
Extending the lever on either end will make the clutch even lighter won't it ? I don't know about neutral finders or anything and
I've ridden bikes for years Kawasaki inckuded but most bikes I found to have the tendency to only go into neutral from first once they are warm
so you have to go all the way down and come up one click to neutral.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
|
|
|
