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Author: Subject: Just when you thought they couldn't sink any lower!
Confused but excited.

posted on 30/5/12 at 07:32 PM Reply With Quote
Just when you thought they couldn't sink any lower!

I do not effing belive it!
Just when you thought the little grey men couldn't sink any lower or be any more dispicable, this happens.
I have just received the following e-mail:


Dear Friend,
Sacking decent workers makes no sense.
In a shameful move, the Tory Work and Pensions Minister Iain Duncan Smith is trying to shut down 54 British factories and throw 1,518 hardworking people on to benefits. Even worse, these are Remploy factories – so the workers he wants sacked are mostly disabled.
Help us keep British factories open for business and stop this government putting disabled workers on the scrap heap.

*Hit send now on our message to Iain Duncan Smith, asking him to meet with Remploy workers. It won’t take you more than a minute to do – but it’s a minute that could save the jobs of over a thousand disabled people.*

Shutting down Remploy shows just how heartless and arrogant this government is. In fact, Iain Duncan Smith told a Remploy worker to her face that he wanted to make her unemployed so he could give someone else a “proper job”.

This is unjustified and nasty. As a union official I had responsibility for Remploy’s workers and I know firsthand that they absolutely do “proper jobs”. Remploy is a brilliant testimony to the British manufacturing industry and it provides real work for disabled people in this country – and we should be proud of it.

I know too that Remploy is much more than a workplace to its staff. Steve Collins, a worker in North Staffs factory, told us that his job at Remploy "saved his life", offering him somewhere he can earn a dignified living, after years of bullying in mainstream employment. This is what Remploy means to its workers – and why we can’t just let it be destroyed.

*Tell Iain Duncan Smith what you think of his decision to throw 1,518 hardworking disabled people on the scrap heap. Ask him now to save British factories and jobs.*

Closing down our factories and forcing people on to benefits makes no economic sense at a time when more than two million people in this country are out of work.

With the full force of our members’ voices, we can put enough pressure on the government to save Remploy. Thank you for standing up for these workers.

In solidarity,
Len

Len McCluskey
General Secretary
Unite the Union


The two paragraphs that are enclosed with asteriscs were links, but I don't know how to do them on here. If someone could convert them into links it would be much appreciated.

So come on Locosters, let the little grey men know what you think of this decision.
Especilly those few who think unemployed disabled people are parasites, now's your chance to stop 1500 more scroungers.

Talk about making your pee boil!





Tell them about the bent treacle edges!

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morcus

posted on 30/5/12 at 07:40 PM Reply With Quote
I'm really confused.





In a White Room, With Black Curtains, By the Station.

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blakep82

posted on 30/5/12 at 07:55 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by morcus
I'm really confused.


its an email from the unite union, which is very much biased towards labour, so if anyone from the tory party coughs in the wrong direction, there'll be emails like this. i've not seen anything about this on the news or anything, so i suspect is not all stricty accurate. i may be wrong though, but its basically propagada.
in the same sort of way they would say thatcher closed all the mines, no she didn't, the trade unions did that themselves...
don't get me wrong, i don't like tories, i don't like labour, in fact i don't like any of them.





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Paul_C

posted on 30/5/12 at 07:56 PM Reply With Quote
It's a sad world. I have used Remploy years ago and they did a good job of making up cable assemblies.

There was a report on how much each Remploy job cost the tax payer and it was considerably more than unemployment benefit. Unfortunately I don't trust the management, government or unions. Also relying on accountants to work out costs can give rubbish answers so I don't know what the truth is. I certainly wouldn't trust Len McCluskey or Ian Duncan Smith.

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rb968

posted on 30/5/12 at 08:16 PM Reply With Quote
I was talking to a young lad in the pub on Sunday who has learning difficulties and works at our local Remploy.

Sadly it appears to be true as it is scheduled to close. Another mate with me said there seems to have been little discussion on the matter or consultations.

Don't necessarily agree with the sentiments of the union email but it does seem a bloody shame.

http://www.nwemail.co.uk/news/hope-for-barrow-remploy-workers-as-financial-deal-is-offered-1.956017?referrerPath=news

Rich

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dlatch

posted on 30/5/12 at 08:23 PM Reply With Quote
pretty sure there was a documentary on C4 about remploy and my impression of it was yes its a noble cause that gives those that get jobs a purpose it still costs more money than paying the people employed to stay at home on benefits.

at the very least it needs looking at and re organised/managed so it can at the very least break even. i would still prefer to see these people integrated into normal working environments alongside everyone else but with support and help to do so.
plenty big companies out there could give people worth while jobs to the disabled and people with learning problems this would also help educate others about these people so it would be win win

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whitestu

posted on 30/5/12 at 08:36 PM Reply With Quote
The other sie of the argument is that the cost of employing people at Remploy is huge and they can be supported into better alternative employment much more cheaply. Could be Bo**ocks though. Neither the unions nor government are trustworthy.

Stu

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D Beddows

posted on 30/5/12 at 08:38 PM Reply With Quote
Nope, from what I've heard it's pretty much true Don't worry though, the private sector will provide them all with jobs along with everyone else the government is making unemployed............ NOT! - to borrow a 'yoof' phrase
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plentywahalla

posted on 30/5/12 at 08:53 PM Reply With Quote
I used to be in the retial display business. Time and time again we would find ourselves being undercut by Remploy. Only if our employees worked for nothing could we have matched their price. That is of course exactly how it works.

It was an excellent idea 60 odd years ago when it was dreamt up to employ disabled ex-servicemen. But they are putting other people our of work by distorting the marketplace with unrealistic pricing.

Maybe if the subsidy was reduced to a level where they had to compete properly, and deliver a profit, then the government would continue to use our taxes to support them. Instead of using our taxes to put ourselves out of business.





Rules are for the guidance of wise men ... and the obedience of fools. (anon)

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Macbeast

posted on 30/5/12 at 09:08 PM Reply With Quote
For what it's worth - the programme of closures at Remploy has been going on for some time ( 2008 ? ) and was started under the Labour Government.





I'm addicted to brake fluid, but I can stop anytime.

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perksy

posted on 30/5/12 at 09:20 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
quote:
Originally posted by morcus
I'm really confused.


its an email from the unite union, which is very much biased towards labour, so if anyone from the tory party coughs in the wrong direction, there'll be emails like this. i've not seen anything about this on the news or anything, so i suspect is not all stricty accurate. i may be wrong though, but its basically propagada.
in the same sort of way they would say thatcher closed all the mines, no she didn't, the trade unions did that themselves...
don't get me wrong, i don't like tories, i don't like labour, in fact i don't like any of them.






Not really propoganda
Just a union raising awareness and fighting for its members
If it can't fight for some of its more disadvantaged members, it would be a sad day

Thatcher created a lot of strife for the unions by changes to the law etc
and the Labour party chose to resind very few (if any) of those laws when they gained power
I don't like politicians either and trust none of them

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Andybarbet

posted on 30/5/12 at 09:20 PM Reply With Quote
I have had 1st hand experience dealing with Remploy & it is more than just a job for most of the employees.

It gives people with difficulties a reason to get up in the morning, a purpose, interaction with many other people daily etc.

I for one dont mind it costing money out of my tax deductions, I can think of a lot worse things draining the 'POT' so to speak.

When I dealt with a supervisor at one of the Remploy factorys, they said the main issue was originally it was designed as a stepping stone into employment but most people dont leave once they get a place there because it becomes almost like a big family & therefore makes people feel welcome without prejudice etc so they never leave.

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morcus

posted on 30/5/12 at 10:43 PM Reply With Quote
I'm slightly less confused, but I'm still confused.

So some trade union wants us to flood IDS with emails, because of budget cuts and because he's alledgedly told a disabled person to their face that he wants them to stop working so someone else can have a job? I really find the last part hard to believe, that said I feel the same way about anything that comes from a trade unions press department and actually couldn't tell if the original post was with or against the government/trade union.





In a White Room, With Black Curtains, By the Station.

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Peteff

posted on 31/5/12 at 10:02 AM Reply With Quote
Ban politics from forums. Too many different views to ever reach a conclusion in a thread. The conservatives don't only want to close Remploy they want to change the employment laws so employers can sack people more easily with no comebacks from tribunals. I support Union policies wholeheartedly, if it wasn't for them there would be no paid holiday entitlement or any other benefits and you would still be working in't mill for tuppence an hour 8 days a week.





yours, Pete

I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.

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BenB

posted on 31/5/12 at 10:21 AM Reply With Quote
I thought we were banning politics from forums?
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RK

posted on 31/5/12 at 12:24 PM Reply With Quote
Now why would you want to do that? Everyone knows that actually selling services and goods is the key to a good economy. Venice is a good example, and so is ... the US. Stop making things, or bothering to try to sell them, and you've got a problem.
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richard thomas

posted on 31/5/12 at 09:47 PM Reply With Quote
Remploy gives opportunity to a section of the community who want to do something worthwhile with their lives...they want to contribute to society and it gives them the means to do so.

I would cancel ALL child benefits to pay for it.....want to breed? Cough up! Cant afford it? Dont breed. Natural selection....natures way etc. etc.

Yes it would hurt me in the pocket but it would stop me having kids if i couldn't pay for them....let alone having a small football team subsidised by all you lot.....as some do...


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Dangle_kt

posted on 31/5/12 at 10:03 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by richard thomas
Remploy gives opportunity to a section of the community who want to do something worthwhile with their lives...they want to contribute to society and it gives them the means to do so.

I would cancel ALL child benefits to pay for it.....want to breed? Cough up! Cant afford it? Dont breed. Natural selection....natures way etc. etc.

Yes it would hurt me in the pocket but it would stop me having kids if i couldn't pay for them....let alone having a small football team subsidised by all you lot.....as some do...




Except that would just leave a massive swath of youngsters in already vulnerable position even worse off lot in life. Why should they suffer even more just because they were not born into money?

Or say we just say, it only applies to new pregancy. Well it will still happen, as it always has, so do we leave those kids to suffer? No? when then what? how do we stop them breeding???? Taking that to its logical conclusion gets us into some pretty messy territory, say.. to chemically castrating the poor....

Sweeping statements and bold proposals are best left to the politicians promise to get votes and then never implement, as the situation is always far more complex than a forum of people who don't understand the complexity of it to solve.

Fact is, in a capitalist system the aim is for some people get rich, but as there is finite resource, this involves more people getting poor.

In other words, any "fixes" generally involve someone else copping for it.

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richard thomas

posted on 31/5/12 at 10:19 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dangle_kt
quote:
Originally posted by richard thomas
Remploy gives opportunity to a section of the community who want to do something worthwhile with their lives...they want to contribute to society and it gives them the means to do so.

I would cancel ALL child benefits to pay for it.....want to breed? Cough up! Cant afford it? Dont breed. Natural selection....natures way etc. etc.

Yes it would hurt me in the pocket but it would stop me having kids if i couldn't pay for them....let alone having a small football team subsidised by all you lot.....as some do...




Except that would just leave a massive swath of youngsters in already vulnerable position even worse off lot in life. Why should they suffer even more just because they were not born into money?

Or say we just say, it only applies to new pregancy. Well it will still happen, as it always has, so do we leave those kids to suffer? No? when then what? how do we stop them breeding???? Taking that to its logical conclusion gets us into some pretty messy territory, say.. to chemically castrating the poor....

Sweeping statements and bold proposals are best left to the politicians promise to get votes and then never implement, as the situation is always far more complex than a forum of people who don't understand the complexity of it to solve.

Fact is, in a capitalist system the aim is for some people get rich, but as there is finite resource, this involves more people getting poor.

In other words, any "fixes" generally involve someone else copping for it.


You are right....fair point....I stand corrected....

What I am trying to say is that a fair society would have people appreciative of the fact that there are consequences to actions....wish I was born into money.....cos if i was i would be able to ingnore the fact that there are consequences to actions....

Anyway, I am just off to pack my job in, and have 8 more kids....hope you don't mind paying for them....so keep working hard for me....

Thanks, Rich.

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Dangle_kt

posted on 31/5/12 at 10:53 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by richard thomas


What I am trying to say is that a fair society would have people appreciative of the fact that there are consequences to actions....wish I was born into money.....cos if i was i would be able to ingnore the fact that there are consequences to actions....


Thanks, Rich.


I agree

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gazza285

posted on 1/6/12 at 12:29 AM Reply With Quote
Politics.

Labour = spend spend spend. Spunking tax money on crap, borrowing billions to make people feel happy, bankrupting the country in the process. Eventually people realise this and vote Tory.

Conservative = paying the money borrowed by Labour back. Cutting services, cutting benefits and making people unhappy, restoring the countries wealth. Eventually people realise this and vote Labour.

Unions = Making sure that the worst man in the job gets the same pay as the best man in the job, whilst paying themselves more and loading their pension funds.

Other political parties = There for our amusement.





DO NOT PUT ON KNOB OR BOLLOCKS!

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RK

posted on 1/6/12 at 01:10 AM Reply With Quote
You forgot to add "cutting back and lining the pockets of their best friends" when describing Conservatives. The amounts are always lower with the more "liberal" of the parties, in my opinion.
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