KFC
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| posted on 14/10/13 at 10:51 PM |
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RX8 V6 engine swap
There are a lot of good RX8's out there with dead engines and they seem to go for about 4 to 500 quid. I like the idea of the V6 in a RX8,
lovely sound and power, I'm not after ridicules power, 230bhp-250bhp mark. Cars with the engine I think I want go for about the same money, an
engine out of a mondeo or S-type. I'm driving a MX6 with the 2.5L klde engine but I thought a AJ30 out of a s-type would be better for the
engine lay out with a lot of usable parts, manifolds, mounts, bolt on the RX8 gearbox? Adapter plate needed? I'm not sure but I thought the rwd
version with the duratec based engine would be ideal. I would like to try and use the stock inlet and ecu just to keep the cost down for now.
I'd just like to get one going sooner than later so I can get rid of the MX6, What do you think?
[Edited on 14/10/13 by KFC]
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bi22le
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| posted on 15/10/13 at 06:50 AM |
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Do it!!
The US love doing Rx7 with V8 in and I think they have started doing RX8 now aswell.
Do some googling and see whaat info is already out there.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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balidey
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| posted on 15/10/13 at 07:27 AM |
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I also saw how cheap they were and did some searching. Seems the VAG 1.8 turbo engine is a popular choice with a couple of companies selling adapters
etc.
Dutch bears have terrible skin due to their clogged paws
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KFC
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| posted on 15/10/13 at 08:58 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bi22le
Do it!!
The US love doing Rx7 with V8 in and I think they have started doing RX8 now aswell.
Do some googling and see whaat info is already out there.
Yeah Amercan's love their V8's  , too big and heavy for my liking, I don't want to ruin the handling of the car, I enjoy corners
and round abouts as chicanes.
I'm trying to find dimensions of rotary engine to compare to a small V6 that will fit nicely.
I did think about a BMW 3.0 V8 because of the sound, a higher pitched V8 because of the smaller pots, but it's too long and expensive spares.
I've heard the KLDE 2.5L V6 has good aftermarket support. My only concern is all the mods and expense I would have to do getting a transversed
engine to fit longitudinally with lots of modding and expense. I want this conversion to happen as quickly as I can, weeks rather than months. The
engine in my MX6 would be ideal but then I have no transport. Its a good healthy engine with no leaks and doesn't use oil.
What about getting the mazda chassis loom to speak to the engine loom in the same language? Has anyone done that?
[Edited on 15/10/13 by KFC]
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KFC
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| posted on 15/10/13 at 11:23 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by balidey
I also saw how cheap they were and did some searching. Seems the VAG 1.8 turbo engine is a popular choice with a couple of companies selling adapters
etc.
I think it would be too tall and heavy, don't they have a cast iron block? The later engines are ally but they would be expensive, I'm
looking at an engine that is at least 10 years old because of the cost of buying it. This will be initially a cheap outlay and then once it's
drivable then I can tinker and do mods.
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bi22le
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| posted on 15/10/13 at 11:53 AM |
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I dont know if they are common donors of their engines but certainlt would be cheap
Mitsibushi FTO V6
Ford Probe
Both V6 but under the power you are looking for. I thought I would suggest them as they are both in similar styled cars so the engines will have to be
short.
I do have the feeling though that Mazda would of taken advantage of having such a physically small engine and lowered the bonnet line to match.
Good luck with weeks rather than months!
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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mcerd1
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| posted on 15/10/13 at 12:25 PM |
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you'll find all the mazda V6 experts on clairetoo's MX5 V6 thread:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=161146
and a fair bit of info on the duratec / jaj V6's here:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=184341
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twybrow
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| posted on 15/10/13 at 02:15 PM |
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The RX8 6 speed gearbox is the gearbox from the MX5, and therefore it should be possible to use the Mazda V6 (see links above for Clairetoo) and bolt
it straight up to the 6 speed box.... Simples.
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KFC
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| posted on 15/10/13 at 03:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bi22le
I dont know if they are common donors of their engines but certainlt would be cheap
Mitsibushi FTO V6
Ford Probe
Both V6 but under the power you are looking for. I thought I would suggest them as they are both in similar styled cars so the engines will have to be
short.
I do have the feeling though that Mazda would of taken advantage of having such a physically small engine and lowered the bonnet line to match.
Good luck with weeks rather than months!
Yeah both of those engine are under powered, the jag 3.0l has 240bhp and quite torquey.
Thanks any way.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 15/10/13 at 03:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by twybrow
The RX8 6 speed gearbox is the gearbox from the MX5, and therefore it should be possible to use the Mazda V6 (see links above for Clairetoo) and bolt
it straight up to the 6 speed box.... Simples.
is that not the box that bolts strait onto the 4 cyl duratec HE ?
correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the 4cyl duratec had a different bellhousing pattern from the duratec V6....
[Edited on 15/10/2013 by mcerd1]
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me!
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| posted on 15/10/13 at 04:10 PM |
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Watching with interest... I was thinking about exactly the same thing today!
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twybrow
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| posted on 15/10/13 at 04:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
quote:
Originally posted by twybrow
The RX8 6 speed gearbox is the gearbox from the MX5, and therefore it should be possible to use the Mazda V6 (see links above for Clairetoo) and bolt
it straight up to the 6 speed box.... Simples.
is that not the box that bolts strait onto the 4 cyl duratec HE ?
correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the 4cyl duratec had a different bellhousing pattern from the duratec V6....
[Edited on 15/10/2013 by mcerd1]
I didn't say anything about the Duratec V6! I said the Mazda V6 that the OP was referring to!
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KFC
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| posted on 15/10/13 at 04:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
quote:
Originally posted by twybrow
The RX8 6 speed gearbox is the gearbox from the MX5, and therefore it should be possible to use the Mazda V6 (see links above for Clairetoo) and bolt
it straight up to the 6 speed box.... Simples.
is that not the box that bolts strait onto the 4 cyl duratec HE ?
correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the 4cyl duratec had a different bellhousing pattern from the duratec V6....
[Edited on 15/10/2013 by mcerd1]
I think the 6 speed ratios in the mx5 and rx8 are the same but I have no idea what other engine will bolt up to the RX8 gearbox.
I have a feeling the engine block of the KLDE 2.5L V6 is different to the 3.0L duratec, even when it say it's a bored out 2.5L. I'm not
sure how it can be when wiki says the duratec 3.0L shares the same block as the 3.5L and 3.7L?
I don't think the RX8 is short on space even if the duratec 30 or better yet the AJ30 to fit in without messing with the subframe. These are all
opinions of course as I haven't done an engine swap for about 20 years, a lot has changed since then.
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big_wasa
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| posted on 15/10/13 at 05:12 PM |
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I am well up for doing one of these as a project. look great, handle well and have four seats as well as being a little different but the most
important thing is they are cheap for now.
I am also interested in the jag 3.0 engine.
I haven't checked in a few months to see if Martin @ Reyland motorsport finished his. From his project thread I think length was an issue with
out playing with the steering rack. he is a big 18 20vt fan and has fitted them to all sorts of Mgr's
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clairetoo
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| posted on 15/10/13 at 05:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by KFC
quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
quote:
Originally posted by twybrow
The RX8 6 speed gearbox is the gearbox from the MX5, and therefore it should be possible to use the Mazda V6 (see links above for Clairetoo) and bolt
it straight up to the 6 speed box.... Simples.
is that not the box that bolts strait onto the 4 cyl duratec HE ?
correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the 4cyl duratec had a different bellhousing pattern from the duratec V6....
[Edited on 15/10/2013 by mcerd1]
I think the 6 speed ratios in the mx5 and rx8 are the same but I have no idea what other engine will bolt up to the RX8 gearbox.
I have a feeling the engine block of the KLDE 2.5L V6 is different to the 3.0L duratec, even when it say it's a bored out 2.5L. I'm not
sure how it can be when wiki says the duratec 3.0L shares the same block as the 3.5L and 3.7L?
I don't think the RX8 is short on space even if the duratec 30 or better yet the AJ30 to fit in without messing with the subframe. These are all
opinions of course as I haven't done an engine swap for about 20 years, a lot has changed since then.
The whole of the KLDE (not just the block) is different to the duratec - its not in any way related (apart from having 6 cylinders.....)
The KL is smaller and lighter , but there are no V6's that will bolt to the Rx8 gearbox - the `bellhousing' is completely different to the
Mx5 , so would need an adapter .
I have thought about a KL into the Rx8 - sorry to the Ford fans , but I just happen to like the engine due to its lack of size , adequate power (over
200 with just throttle bodies) and free revving nature (8000 is my normal rev limit on a stock motor - worth revving that high as peak power is up
around 7300)
But......fitting one with the stock inlet is a non-starter as the throttle body would end up right where the brake servo wants to be , as well as the
firewall .
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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Simon
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| posted on 15/10/13 at 07:30 PM |
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Damn, thought that wasn't well known! Been watching loads of RX8's over the last month or two; and Jag V8 engines
You know the rest!
ATB
Simoon
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KFC
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| posted on 15/10/13 at 09:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Simon
Damn, thought that wasn't well known! Been watching loads of RX8's over the last month or two; and Jag V8 engines
You know the rest!
ATB
Simoon
Hey, do you have any links to these conversions?
[Edited on 15/10/13 by KFC]
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KFC
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| posted on 15/10/13 at 10:26 PM |
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But......fitting one with the stock inlet is a non-starter as the throttle body would end up right where the brake servo wants to be , as well as the
firewall .
Claire, the throttle body you are talking about, that's kind of why I want to try the AJ30 as the inlet minifold would be the right way around
and the ignition pack is in the v and not on the end of the head.
By the way, what do you charge for a set of throttle bodies in case it's a no go?
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clairetoo
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| posted on 15/10/13 at 10:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by KFC
But......fitting one with the stock inlet is a non-starter as the throttle body would end up right where the brake servo wants to be , as well as the
firewall .
Claire, the throttle body you are talking about, that's kind of why I want to try the AJ30 as the inlet minifold would be the right way around
and the ignition pack is in the v and not on the end of the head.
By the way, what do you charge for a set of throttle bodies in case it's a no go?
Would that be throttle bodies for the Jag or the KL ? I've not done a setup for the Jag engine - if it has the same `double' inlet ports
as the duratec , I'm not sure I can.......
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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KFC
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| posted on 15/10/13 at 10:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by clairetoo
quote:
Originally posted by KFC
But......fitting one with the stock inlet is a non-starter as the throttle body would end up right where the brake servo wants to be , as well as the
firewall .
Claire, the throttle body you are talking about, that's kind of why I want to try the AJ30 as the inlet minifold would be the right way around
and the ignition pack is in the v and not on the end of the head.
By the way, what do you charge for a set of throttle bodies in case it's a no go?
Would that be throttle bodies for the Jag or the KL ? I've not done a setup for the Jag engine - if it has the same `double' inlet ports
as the duratec , I'm not sure I can.......
Oh, for the KLDE.
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twybrow
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| posted on 16/10/13 at 03:24 AM |
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This is worth a read...
1.8t into RX8 build
thread
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Simon
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| posted on 16/10/13 at 09:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by KFC
quote:
Originally posted by Simon
Damn, thought that wasn't well known! Been watching loads of RX8's over the last month or two; and Jag V8 engines
You know the rest!
ATB
Simoon
Hey, do you have any links to these conversions?
[Edited on 15/10/13 by KFC]
No. In the best traditions of modifying cars, you get the car and engine/box and offer the two up. Take some measurements abd an angle grinder.
Etc etc etc
ATB
Simon
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KFC
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| posted on 23/2/14 at 10:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by clairetoo
quote:
Originally posted by KFC
But......fitting one with the stock inlet is a non-starter as the throttle body would end up right where the brake servo wants to be , as well as the
firewall .
Claire, the throttle body you are talking about, that's kind of why I want to try the AJ30 as the inlet minifold would be the right way around
and the ignition pack is in the v and not on the end of the head.
By the way, what do you charge for a set of throttle bodies in case it's a no go?
Would that be throttle bodies for the Jag or the KL ? I've not done a setup for the Jag engine - if it has the same `double' inlet ports
as the duratec , I'm not sure I can.......
Well, I've made the decision, I bought a KLDE V6 so I can take my time to rebuild it. My currant car MOT runs out at the end of June so I need
to do the V6 conversion by then. If not then I just spend money to get it through but I don't want to. The mechanical side is easy but the
electrical..... It will be a learning experience for sure. The 5 speed box for the 8 will be better, engine speeds with LSD. I need to find out if the
5 speed and 6 speed box are interchangeable because I might want to change it at a later date, ie, the bellhousing and driveshaft spines.
It's such a compact little engine, dimensionally the V6 are near identical to the rotary complete! The V6 is 1 inch longer, same width. And 2
inches shorter, I can't believe that Mazda never put their own V6 into the RX8???
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Guten i Norge
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| posted on 24/2/14 at 08:00 PM |
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Mazda V6 .... nice
It's a jolly good idea to swap an other engine or a V6 Mazda into the RX8, as I can see it.
The rotor engine is quite pricy too my at least, and are popular to be used to drifting and other car-sport stuff.
What about a 2,3 Duratec with a turbo ...... or an old Mazda V6 that I think was in 626 (626 USA?) and that engine did have a blower inside the
engine. How many Hp it was I don’t know ..... maybe not to much!
Mazda do have a good engine thru the line, but the gear box in RX8 and MX5 are also strong but not the same if we compare 5 and 6 speed. It's a
difference in length and output shaft, somewhere. I did read somewhere about it that the 5 speed box was a better one choice. But but all the box
talking here from my side is not the holy truth.... so if anybody can confirm and/or put me straight then I would be thankful for that, no harm!
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KFC
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| posted on 25/2/14 at 10:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Guten i Norge
It's a jolly good idea to swap an other engine or a V6 Mazda into the RX8, as I can see it.
The rotor engine is quite pricy too my at least, and are popular to be used to drifting and other car-sport stuff.
What about a 2,3 Duratec with a turbo ...... or an old Mazda V6 that I think was in 626 (626 USA?) and that engine did have a blower inside the
engine. How many Hp it was I don’t know ..... maybe not to much!
Mazda do have a good engine thru the line, but the gear box in RX8 and MX5 are also strong but not the same if we compare 5 and 6 speed. It's a
difference in length and output shaft, somewhere. I did read somewhere about it that the 5 speed box was a better one choice. But but all the box
talking here from my side is not the holy truth.... so if anybody can confirm and/or put me straight then I would be thankful for that, no harm!
Hey,
I'm not running turbos, I like naturally aspirated engines. I'm going to rebuild the engine and spend a lot of time on the heads, try and
source KLZE cams or heads as well but either way, it will breath well and I'll balance all the internals.
The car will be my commuter so I'll transfer over my 2 month old LPG system so I'll have very cheap running costs.
I'm keeping the running gear of the RX8, the splines on the drive shaft to the gearbox have a master spline so it makes it tricky to change to
any other gearbox, however... I will get a 231bhp model which has the torsen diff but the ratios in the 6 speed box are too short so I'll be
putting in the 5 speed box in out of the 192bhp model.
I use this website to do the calculations http://www.cargister.com/calculator-gear-ratio
The KLDE V6 is a near perfect choice in terms of phisical size, the dimensions are spot on. No need to cut any bulkheads or chassis rails..
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