A-Waxxx656
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| posted on 11/10/15 at 08:38 PM |
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Zetec 2.0 Cams vs. Fast Road Cams
Currently I have the cams from an early (136HP) 2.0 Zetec Silvertop in my 1.8.
And the performance increase is noticable, little les torque in the lower revs.
A bit more power in the higher revs.
I'm planning a GSXR TB setup, almost everything complete.
Just need to connect the individual TB's together and blank of the
bike injector holes.
As I will be using a 2.0 Blacktop fuelrail and injectors in my ST170 manifold.
How much more gains would Fast Road cams bring in the current setup?
Lets say Piper 270.
And how much with the ITB's?
Thanks
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 12/10/15 at 09:08 AM |
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Examples from my Zetec experiences. Just remember that not all RR's read the same but all were done at the same place so are comparable:
Totally standard 2.0 Silvertop using 45 Webers. 155 corrected BHP at flywheel
Same Silvertop engine and carbs but standard cams replaced by Kent FZ2002. 172 corrected BHP at flywheel.
2100cc Silvertop engine with 45mm Jenvey TB's, Kent FZ2002 cams and Scholar Stage 2 head. 205 corrected BHP at flywheel (Scholar quoted 208 bhp
for this combination).
Original Silvertop engine, standard cams again but fitted with 45mm Jenvey TB's. 162 corrected BHP at flywheel.
Totally standard Blacktop fitted with 45 mm Jenvey TB's. 170 corrected BHP at flywheel.
The Silvertop fitted with the FZ2002's was definitely more eager at the top end and was happy to rev to just over 7000 without feeling the power
had started to drop off. In comparison all the standard engines regardless of induction kit had clearly given their best before 7000 rpm but the ones
on the Jenvey TB's hung on slightly better.
The FZ2002's definitely gave the engine a slightly "cammy" feel but compared to x-flows of old with Kent cams it was pretty
insignificant. Having said that, with the FZ2002's you definitely needed to change gear more.
After a Trackday oil filter disaster with the 2100cc Silvertop I refitted the original Silvertop in totally standard form using the 45mm Jenvey
TB's. What a revelation. The loss of top end compared to the 2100cc jobbie was noticeable (and disappointing at first) but the flexibility low
down was simply staggering, it was far easier to drive on the road and in truth not much slower on the track. Decided within a couple of weeks that I
would not bother rebuilding the 2100cc engine and sold the parts.
Decided during the winter that if a standard 10 year old Silvertop was that good on Jenvey's how good would a brand new Blacktop be, so I bought
one with some of the money I had sold the parts for. 8 years on I am still one very happy person and have never longed for the missing top end of the
tuned engine. The power spread is brilliant and the top end more than adequate in a light weight car.
More power does not necessarily make a car faster and more enjoyable.
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ravingfool
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| posted on 12/10/15 at 10:14 AM |
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I can't add to this discussion but I just wanted to say thank you to Paul for posting his experience with those different setups.
I only have experience of the 2l blacktop on standard single TB which seems pretty good already but I am certainly interested in going individual TBs
+ building a megasquirt ecu to run them in the (distant) future just for the fun of it.
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A-Waxxx656
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| posted on 12/10/15 at 04:09 PM |
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Thanks for your elaborate reply.
The thing that's most remarkable to me is the difference between a stock Silvertop and a stock Blacktop.
So I assume most of the 15 BHP difference is from the Blacktop head which is supposed to flow better?
And I believe the stock inletvalves are slightly bigger.
But I still wonder...
Will aftermarket cams make a big difference, as I already have the 2.0 cams in my 1.8?
Then I mean the mild spec fast road cams, so no race or rally spec.
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 13/10/15 at 07:47 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by A-Waxxx656
The thing that's most remarkable to me is the difference between a stock Silvertop and a stock Blacktop.
So I assume most of the 15 BHP difference is from the Blacktop head which is supposed to flow better?
And I believe the stock inletvalves are slightly bigger.
The Blacktop head does supposedly flow a little better.
The Blacktop does have bigger inlet valves.
The Blacktop also has different cam profiles and solid lifters which may make a difference.
All these small differences will add up.
But the actual difference between the Standard Silvertop on Injection and the standard Blacktop on Injection was only 8 bhp and not the 15 bhp you
quote, that was the difference between a carburetted Silvertop and injected Blacktop.
The fact that the Blacktop was new may have made a small difference but its also fairly safe to say the Silvertop was healthy and well run in so who
knows.
Now the Blacktop has probably 12,000 miles on it a check of the map and a new powerun may show more BHP but since its running perfectly I won't
be bothering.
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 13/10/15 at 08:17 AM |
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Carb'd silvertop?
These engine where never fitted as standard with carbs.
I do agree, normally a blacktop does give more power
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 13/10/15 at 08:26 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
Carb'd silvertop?
These engine where never fitted as standard with carbs.
I know that.
If you look at my previous post like many Zetec owners my original Zetec install used the 45 Webers from their previous engine (a X-Flow), that is why
it was on carbs.
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Ugg10
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| posted on 13/10/15 at 10:27 AM |
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For the price of a set of fast road cams you can buy a good used 2.0l blacktop, fitting that, even with standard cams will give you a better power
boost than the cammed 1.8 and will have significantly better torque low down.
What ECU are you running ? You will not see the full benefit of the cam change unless you can re-map the ECU to suit.
[Edited on 13/10/15 by Ugg10]
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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A-Waxxx656
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| posted on 14/10/15 at 06:13 PM |
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Currently i'm running the standard ECU named JOKE, it is EECV.
I have a DEWY ECU laying around but that won't fit,
and I don't want to spend alot of time bypassing the PATS
What I'm looking for is a bit more BHP, lets say somewhere in the 160 range and a good drivable car.
Not one where I need to be above 3500 rpm constantly to benefit from the power.
So my plans are:
GSXR750 ITB (aftermarket ECU ofcourse)
4 branch manifold
Full stainless steel exhaust
Remove the 2 OEM cats and just one 200 CELL cat
Might or might not gasflow/port the head.
[Edited on 14/10/15 by A-Waxxx656]
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Ugg10
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| posted on 14/10/15 at 06:26 PM |
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Don't know about the ford ecu but as far as I know most stock ecu's will struggle to control that amount of modification, for a start with
the throttle bodies you will need a plenum so that the maf can be kept in the system for it to work which may then become the restriction point not
the single throttle body rendering the tbs useless. Stock ecus are generally closed loop but work within conservativel bounds due to emissions and
environment constraints. To make more power you need more air and more fuel and the stock ecu may not be able to provide mor fuel for the better
breathing as it may think that it is extra air is a leak and go into limp home mode.
Just a thought but othwrs more knowlegeable than myself may be able to confirm/deny these thoughts.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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A-Waxxx656
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| posted on 14/10/15 at 07:22 PM |
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Yes, you are 100% correct.
I will be using an aftermarket ECU.
Allthough some ppl supposedly got it running on standard ECU,
indeed with a plenum and a MAF-sensor.
Making 150bhp or something on a 2.0.
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will121
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| posted on 14/10/15 at 09:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by A-Waxxx656
Yes, you are 100% correct.
I will be using an aftermarket ECU.
Allthough some ppl supposedly got it running on standard ECU,
indeed with a plenum and a MAF-sensor.
Making 150bhp or something on a 2.0.
I had this setup, gsxr600 throttle bodies, plenum with MAF just over 150bhp but made the power higher revs too
[Edited on 14/10/15 by will121]
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A-Waxxx656
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| posted on 17/10/15 at 06:57 AM |
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Did someone try to put a ST170 head on a 1.8 Zetec bottom already?
As I can get one for quite a good price,
I know verniers and VCT delete kit would be necessary.
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 17/10/15 at 07:45 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by A-Waxxx656
Did someone try to put a ST170 head on a 1.8 Zetec bottom already?
As I can get one for quite a good price,
I know verniers and VCT delete kit would be necessary.
It will bolt on
BUT
yours is a Silvertop
the ST170 is a Blacktop
The cam belt tensioners etc that bolt to the front of the head are in totally different places which would require expert machining to replicate the
Silvertop ones.
Plus since the ST170 is a 2 litre it has bigger combustion chambers in the head. Put this on a 1.8 and you would need to get it skimmed to get the
compression ratio back to standard.
Don't bother.
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A-Waxxx656
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| posted on 17/10/15 at 08:27 AM |
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Yes, figured that.
So the best thing to do then would be buy a blacktop 2.0 to fit it on...
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