smart51
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| posted on 29/1/16 at 10:24 AM |
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Cat D car - what to look for
I'm looking for an MR2 on a very tight budget. I don't mind doing some work and have been looking for bargains. I've found a
dealer not far from me selling a Cat D car at a reduced price so I'm thinking of going to look at it tomorrow. What should I ask and what
should I look out for?
The car is a 2002 MR2 roadster with leather seats and 79k miles. Asking price £1350 ono. It was registered as Cat D in Dec 2012 at 10 years 5 months
old. It looks very tidy in the photos.
Auto trader has similar cars on from £1800 to £2500, plus a couple at £3000. HPI value it at £1875 from a dealer for a non Cat D in average
condition. They gave me the date of the write off but no details.
The current registered keeper bought it in 2013, 4 months after it was written off. It had one previous owner from new. It has an otherwise clean
bill of health.
If it looks square, it might be a goer. So what should I check?
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nick205
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| posted on 29/1/16 at 10:45 AM |
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What is the planned use for it?
I'd want to be sure it doesn't crab when moving and that it was safe if crashed again - probably difficult to know exactly what to check
and where to look though.
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garyo
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| posted on 29/1/16 at 10:47 AM |
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Find one that was crashed as recently as possible, the logic being that an MR2 that was only worth £2000 anyway will be written-off due to superficial
damage to a bumper or electric wing mirror. One that was CatD eight years ago when it was worth £10,000 must have taken a hell of a smack to be
written off.
On that basis your 2012 car doesn't seem too bad a bet. Then the obvious checks re: how well it was repaired. It's not unreasonable to
ask for receipts for the repair to ascertain whether it was a hobbie chap in his shed, a main dealer, etc.
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Brook_lands
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| posted on 29/1/16 at 10:54 AM |
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Just take your time and have a good look. It depends what it was that wrote it off. It wouldn't take much at that age and could have been stolen
and recovered with lock only damage. If has been on the road since have a look for funny tyre wear but I doubt it was major damage. I bought a CAT D
which had been a £24k car in 2000, at 5 years old it was written off for quite minor front end damage, bumper, support panel, lights, indicators,
bonnet, front wings and front third of car respray. It had been repaired before I bought it. I drove the car a further 200k miles with no problems at
all. I never had any intention of selling it so wasn't worried about the resale value and I only paid about 60% of the book value for a good
condition car so considered it a bargain.
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nick205
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| posted on 29/1/16 at 11:02 AM |
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Another avenue to ask about and check would be photos of the pre-repaired car to see what the damage was. Modern monocoques are designed and tested
to perform in certain ways in a crash. Once crashed they can be written off if it is deemed that the structure can't be safely repaired in a
cost effective manner.
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smart51
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| posted on 29/1/16 at 11:10 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nick205
What is the planned use for it?
Weekend car mostly. Might find its way on a track once. A possible engine conversion next winter. The 2ZZ Celica engine adds 50 horses and takes
the car from 8.9s to 5.5s for the sprint to 60.
quote:
Originally posted by garyo
...your 2012 car doesn't seem too bad a bet. Then the obvious checks re: how well it was repaired. It's not unreasonable to ask for
receipts for the repair to ascertain whether it was a hobbie chap in his shed, a main dealer, etc.
Receipts etc sound good. I'd be much happier with a cosmetic repair than structural.
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russbost
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| posted on 29/1/16 at 11:23 AM |
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I have a 2006 Cat D Clio, what it was written off for you would see worse in a supermarket car park! it has one small dent in the rear 3/4 which a
paintless repairer could almost certainly get out (I can't be bothered) & a few very slight scratches, which almost polish out but not
quite
At 10 years old, to be a Cat D it would only need to have very minor damage, anything significant, like suspension damage usually pushes it into Cat C
where I would be a lot more wary. Biggest things to avoid are flood or fire damage as they nearly always come back later to haunt you due to damage
unseen & unrepaired at the time
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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smart51
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| posted on 29/1/16 at 03:23 PM |
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I've spoken to the dealer who knows nothing about the damage or repair. He took it in PX as is without paperwork.
He was keen to tell me that he dropped the price a few days ago, but wouldn't tell me what it was on for before. Perhaps he genuinely
doesn't remember if there are lots of cars on the lot. He's had it 3 or 4 weeks, so maybe the price drop suggests there's been
little interest or others have seen it and walked away. It will have to be an eyes wide open viewing.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 29/1/16 at 03:59 PM |
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Check that your insurance is not affected, my CATD car had to go theft only and was a lot more due to this. Not sure why they load them as the
replacement is cheaper and the chance of an accident is the same.
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ian locostzx9rc2
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| posted on 29/1/16 at 05:13 PM |
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I agree with what russbost has posted.
[Edited on 29/1/16 by ian locostzx9rc2]
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COREdevelopments
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| posted on 29/1/16 at 06:18 PM |
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I have one of these mr2's. a lovely car to drive, bought mine to go on a road trip to the south of france and monaco. its now parked up at the
moment.
The main worry when buying one is the oil burning issue, some tend to burn silly amounts of oil due to bores going oval. mine burns a little bit but
its managable. another problem is power steering pump (electrohydraulic) tend to wear out. also power steering pipes going into the rack can corrode
badly and are really expensive from dealer. Mine went a couple of days before the road trip, luckily I managed to modify and weld new ends on them.
I really enjoyed driving mine and if you ever need a decent 2zzge set up, I have one here ready. Its from a 2002 corolla with 80k and will be forsale
soon.
so will the mr2.
as for damage depending where the damage was or if it even had any structural, a damaged roof could classify a write off, but look out for shut lines
and gaps around bumper and healamps. If its been shunted from behind there is a large exhaust to take the brunt before it hits the chassis.
Rob
[Edited on 29/1/16 by COREdevelopments]
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smart51
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| posted on 29/1/16 at 06:40 PM |
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Thanks everyone. Useful comments. I might well be in the market for a 2zzge engine later in the year, thanks Rob.
I've redone the insurance quote with the actual car reg and talked to an agent at the insurer. Cat D has no effect on insurance on this car,
which is nice.
There's another car for sale in Warrington with a suspiciously low price of £700. It's two years older and has really manky looking
seats, but that's an easy fix. I happen to be near Warrington next week end so will look in on it. It not being a write off and being a lot
cheaper are a draw, especially at the same mileage. I do wonder why it is cheap though.
[Edited on 29-1-2016 by smart51]
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obfripper
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| posted on 29/1/16 at 07:16 PM |
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Regarding the oil burning problem, toyota know about this and do a short engine for about 700+vat which has modified internals, i've changed a
few in various toyota models.
You may find it has already been changed as it's a common failure and catastrophic if the oil runs out, one of the engines i rebuilt was that
badly damaged that undoing the headbolts allowed the block to fall into 2 halves - the head needed 4 valves and a reface and toyota took the engine
remains as the exchange unit.
No or hand struck engine numbers are a good clue that the modified block has been fitted previously.
If you're not put off by building up a short block, buying one with a known failed engine might be a cheap option to look at.
Dave
ETA
Short block info
[Edited on 29/1/16 by obfripper]
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smart51
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| posted on 29/1/16 at 09:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by obfripper
Regarding the oil burning problem, toyota know about this and do a short engine for about 700+vat which has modified internals, i've changed a
few in various toyota models.
You may find it has already been changed as it's a common failure and catastrophic if the oil runs out, one of the engines i rebuilt was that
badly damaged that undoing the headbolts allowed the block to fall into 2 halves - the head needed 4 valves and a reface and toyota took the engine
remains as the exchange unit.
No or hand struck engine numbers are a good clue that the modified block has been fitted previously.
If you're not put off by building up a short block, buying one with a known failed engine might be a cheap option to look at.
Dave
ETA
Short block info
[Edited on 29/1/16 by obfripper]
Nice to know, thanks.
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smart51
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| posted on 30/1/16 at 01:22 PM |
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OK so I went to see the car today. From a distance it looked nice but on closer inspection is it a bit tatty. The ad said *NICE PAINT WORK* FIRST TO
SEE WILL BUY. Erm. No.
The car hasn't been washed for so long its going mouldy. The two front tyres were flat and there was absolutely no electrical power. Once
they'd connected a booster, it started straight of the key and idled nicely with no smoke.
The car looks fairly straight inside and out. Both bumper skirts are misaligned on the passenger side. There are a couple of dents in each sill,
and a couple on the rear wing. Lots of scuffs on the bodywork and the paint is scraped on one wheelarch edge down to the metal which has surface
rust. The underside is pretty clean, as is the engine bay. and under the bonnet. There are only two suspicious bits. The panel the holds the rear
offside light has one of the return edges bent and is rusty. The panel between the silencer and the engine is bent as if it was rear ended. All the
rear structure behind the silencer looks sound.
The interior is very tidy, save for a tear in the leather on the drivers seat. And everything works. Well it did. I let the engine run for 10
minutes then turned it off. I checked all the electrical fittings until the battery was so dead there was nothing at all on key on.
The hood is in good shape, though a bit discoloured over the doors. It opens to about 3/4 the wab back then doesn't want to go much further. I
did get it locked open but only with a bit of force. The catches on the MR2 roof are very good. I was actually impressed.
All the suspension linkages looked sound, though one of the front wishbones had MR2 written on it in white paint. It's been fixed with salvaged
parts, which is what I would do probably. The front tyres are worn more on the inside edge on both sides, with the innermost tread blocks feathered a
bit. It could just be toe settings. The alloys are bubbling under the paintwork too.
Bearing in mind the car is 14 years old and cheap perhaps it's OK. Most of the problems I can fix without too much trouble. But the car is a
Cat D and would be cheap even if it was tidy. My 21 year old Cappuccino was in better nick when I sold it.
I'm not exactly feeling the love, but it is not a ruin either. There's another one I'll look at next week, which is even cheaper
and not a write off. I told the guy I had another to see. I said if I come back, can he have the tyres, battery and alternator fixed.
Given my description what would you do? Haggle hard? Walk away?
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02GF74
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| posted on 30/1/16 at 02:48 PM |
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Im voting for walk.
Id rather spend a bit more for something im happy with, there is lots to choose from. Good luck witb the secon. One.
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coozer
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| posted on 30/1/16 at 03:15 PM |
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Your better off trying the salvage auctions so you can see exactly what the damage is. On a plus side you will get to ally cheaper from the yard.
Check ouit coparts, keep an eye on the prices, very cheap..
I just missed a 10 plate Suzuki Jimny that went for £75!
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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Davegtst
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| posted on 30/1/16 at 03:42 PM |
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I'd be walking away from that one, sounds like the seller can't be bothered anyway. I wouldn't bother with a cat D they are so
cheap now and all panels unbolt from the chassis so repairs are easy. I've bought a few of these they can be very very cheap. I'd be
very wary of one that hasn't had the pre-cats removed as nearly every one I have heard of has had some form of engine failure if they
haven't been taken out. Try looking on the owners forum MR2ROC. With the hoods in this weather they need a bit of warming up first to soften
the vinyl. You need to push the top of the rear window down while folding it back to get it to sit right. In the summer the hood should fall back
without any pressure.
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russbost
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| posted on 30/1/16 at 05:58 PM |
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Doesn't sound like bargain of the year really! 
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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ian locostzx9rc2
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| posted on 30/1/16 at 07:20 PM |
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Go with your gut feeling and walk away always the best in my experience.
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smart51
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| posted on 31/1/16 at 05:04 PM |
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Just been to see another car. It popped up on ebay yesterday. £1300 so £50 cheaper, but two years older and 95k miles.
It's a much tideir car, has full main dealer service history and 12 month's MOT. Though strangely has an old stone chip in the middle of
the screen and corroded coil springs that are not on mentioned as advisories. the engine MIL lamp on, which the guy says is an O2 sensor. It's
not insured so no road test.
It took a couple of seconds to start on each of the 4 or 5 times I started it. I've never owned a high mileage car. Is this normal or is it a
sign of something?
What it does show that yesterday's car is going to stay on the forecourt. At the right price I might have taken it on. This one wins hands
down. Now I have to decide whether to make him an offer this week, or to go and see the car in Warrington on Saturday. £600 cheaper, 6 months older.
16,000 fewer miles. How much do you knock off for windscreen stone chips and unsolved engine problems?
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russbost
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| posted on 1/2/16 at 08:53 AM |
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Personally wouldn't buy it with unsolved engine probs - surely if it's an O2 sensor it would cause an MoT fail on emissions as it's
sending incorrect info to the closed loop, or is this a sensor after the CAT - either way, agree a price with the engine light fault fixed - 95,000
isn't high mileage BTW!
Some corrosion on coil springs wouldn't necessarily attract an advisory, screen can always be replaced in a few months time on insurance
(tho' far be it for me to suggest such a thing!) - if the rest of the car is good it's just the MIL light that needs sorting
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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ss1turbo
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| posted on 1/2/16 at 12:24 PM |
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If in doubt, get a cheap code reader for the MIL lamp?
Long live RWD...
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nick205
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| posted on 1/2/16 at 04:12 PM |
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95k miles is just about broken in!
My boss drove his Audi A4 to 235k miles before it went pop (quite spectacularly it must be said)
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smart51
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| posted on 3/2/16 at 07:09 PM |
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I've took a punt and offered £1100 on the second car, which was accepted. I pick it up on Sunday. It seems a descent motor at a good price.
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