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Author: Subject: picasso diesel just too slow
Vmax1974

posted on 12/10/16 at 10:31 PM Reply With Quote
picasso diesel just too slow

I have (maybe the worlds worst) picasso 2.0 hdi that is in dire need of some care

I have had the car for coming up 2 years and done 45000 miles in that time anyway since the last owner only used the car for popping to the shops and back

So the problem i have is the car
has become painfully slow and i have to drop down to 2nd or 3rd to get it up even a small hill

I assumed that it was the egr valve so i disconnected it and it made a little difference for about 6 months but now its just too slow

I am assuming that there is a build up of crud stopping the turbo from doing its thing but i wonder is there an easy fix for this cause i can't crawl about on the floor too much cause i have a bad back now the engine needs a new front crank oil seal so may do that at the same time





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coozer

posted on 12/10/16 at 10:38 PM Reply With Quote
Take it too Dreamworx at Thirsk .. Search on FB...

Mine was slow and now it does go go go.... Plus the mpg has gone up 20%





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Vmax1974

posted on 12/10/16 at 11:12 PM Reply With Quote
I would say its got about 30bhp left i get left by my brothers very standard austin a35

List of jobs is it needs a tensioner idler pulley, crankshaft front seal, decoke of turbo, drop link, ....... another car may be less hassle but funds dont allow that so mend and make do it is





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owelly

posted on 13/10/16 at 04:46 AM Reply With Quote
Can you pull off a turbo hose and see if it makes any difference and see if it's making any boost? All the brakes free to turn? Carpet curled-up under the gas pedal?!





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britishtrident

posted on 13/10/16 at 05:55 AM Reply With Quote
If the engine has a MAF it sounds very much like a MAF issue, many MAFs can be tested by simply disconnecting them but some can't it depends on the fall back strategy of the ECU.

You could try cleaning the MAF with carb cleaner.

[Edited on 13/10/16 by britishtrident]





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Irony

posted on 13/10/16 at 06:41 AM Reply With Quote
My 2.0hdi engined cmax is a bugger for maf sensors. Yours might have the same engine. It starts slowly getting slower and starts getting a really smelly exhaust. It also bogs down unexpectedly. I think mine is on its 5th sensor. It has some issue were it munches them. You can get used ones on the bay of E.
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britishtrident

posted on 13/10/16 at 07:30 AM Reply With Quote
Ebay is a place I would be very wary of buying a MAF sensor from, for example a MAF from a Corsa looks exactly the same as the MAF froma Mercedes but the calibration is completely different. There are also a huge number of Chinese knock-offs and old sensors cleaned up and put in a new box floating around on eBay. As for secondhand sensors the odds of buying a good one are pretty low.

There are different designs of MAF sensor element and how the signal is transmitted to the ECU can be as 0-5v signal or as the duty cycle of a square wave. The working part of the sensing element can be either a tiny coil of resisstance wire or a blade coated with a semi-conductor material. The sensing element becomes contaminated with oil, dirt and quite often dead insects, any change to the induction system such as moving the airfilter air inlet or fitting a K&N airfilter can throw the sensor calibration out or contaminate the sensing element.

Wire sensing elements can quite often be cleaned but cleaning the semi-conductor type generally isn't so successful.

[Edited on 13/10/16 by britishtrident]





[I] What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .
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Vmax1974

posted on 13/10/16 at 07:31 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irony
My 2.0hdi engined cmax is a bugger for maf sensors. Yours might have the same engine. It starts slowly getting slower and starts getting a really smelly exhaust. It also bogs down unexpectedly. I think mine is on its 5th sensor. It has some issue were it munches them. You can get used ones on the bay of E.


Used MAF ordered see if that makes a difference





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nick205

posted on 13/10/16 at 08:14 AM Reply With Quote
I had a 306 2.0 HDI some years back, good little car, but not overly fast I have to say. Replaced with an (older) 7 seat Alhambra when we went from 1 to 3 children overnight!

From personal experience with that and VAG TDIs clogged diesel filters are very often the issue. They're rarely changed during a garage service and for the low and ease of change they're well worth doing. Even VAG genuine filters are not expensive and have taken me less than 1/2 to change. Some diesel engines self-prime the filter, but others benefit from the new filter being filled with fresh diesel to avoid getting air in the system (engine won't usually start with air in the system).


ETA...while you're under the bonnet check the air filter too. If it's past it's best and strangling the engine of air you'll be going slow!

ETA2...both of the above will see an increase in MPG too as the engine will be working better.

[Edited on 13/10/16 by nick205]

[Edited on 13/10/16 by nick205]






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Irony

posted on 13/10/16 at 08:52 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Ebay is a place I would be very wary of buying a MAF sensor from, for example a MAF from a Corsa looks exactly the same as the MAF froma Mercedes but the calibration is completely different. There are also a huge number of Chinese knock-offs and old sensors cleaned up and put in a new box floating around on eBay. As for secondhand sensors the odds of buying a good one are pretty low.

There are different designs of MAF sensor element and how the signal is transmitted to the ECU can be as 0-5v signal or as the duty cycle of a square wave. The working part of the sensing element can be either a tiny coil of resisstance wire or a blade coated with a semi-conductor material. The sensing element becomes contaminated with oil, dirt and quite often dead insects, any change to the induction system such as moving the airfilter air inlet or fitting a K&N airfilter can throw the sensor calibration out or contaminate the sensing element.

Wire sensing elements can quite often be cleaned but cleaning the semi-conductor type generally isn't so successful.

[Edited on 13/10/16 by britishtrident]


I have bought 5 MAF sensors from eBay and 1 from a main dealer. I have made sure the part numbers are identical and on visual inspection they have looked identical. Never had a problem at all and they have revived my 2.0HDI instantly. Admittedly they only last 8-12 months but as new ones from Ford seem to last the same amount of time it doesn't matter.

I have tried to clean them with carb cleaner and electrical contact cleaner with zero luck.

The 2.0HDI engine in my Ford Cmax seems to be the same as the 2.0HDI in Peugeots. The Peugeot MAF sensor is identical but half the price used.

I don't know why my car munches them so quick but I think the engine has been tinkered with prior to my ownership. It is really far to quick for a baby hauler. I'd happily swap 20% power for 20% better economy.

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nick205

posted on 13/10/16 at 09:12 AM Reply With Quote
Interesting, I wasn't aware that the PSA HDI diesel engine was manufactured by and used in quite such a range of vehicles. I knew Peugeot and Citroen were both PSA, but didn't realise it was in Ford and BMW Mini cars...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSA_HDi_engine






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MikeR

posted on 13/10/16 at 11:18 AM Reply With Quote
As we're talking about the engine ....

I've got an smax with the 2.0 tdci (140bhp) and i've got two questions.

1) has anyone changed the belts? Garage (citroen / peugeot specialist) seems a bit surprised i'm asking about changing them but ford says 125k or 10 years. I'm on 123.5k.

2) i get a weird pulse most but not all of the time on hard acceleration in 4, 5 or 6th. Its like 1 second full power, 1 second 70% power, 1 second full power etc etc. Its had this for a couple of years. Seems ok the day after a service.

Any ideas? Garage suggestes replacing the EGR as a guess but isn't sure and I don't want to spend 300 quid on a part + fitting for a guess on a car thats not worth that much.

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SJ

posted on 13/10/16 at 02:45 PM Reply With Quote
MikeR, I have a Mondeo with the same engine and mine is exactly the same in respect of the 'pulsing' you describe. I've had it since 19k miles and it has never changed.

Mine also seems to slip it's clutch a bit when accelerating hard in high gears, which I though was a major clutch problem or DMF on its way out. it started doing this 40k miles ago and hasn't changed, but I was wondering if the pulsing was the clutch slipping very slightly and the ECU cutting power when it detects slip.

As I said mine has had the pulsing thing as long as I have had it even when I couldn't detect any clutch slip.

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steve m

posted on 13/10/16 at 03:57 PM Reply With Quote
I also have the 2.0 Tdci in my Mondeo, and Ford said that the cambelt was to be changed at 80k miles, that is 128 Km

but I do not seem to be getting the pulsing effect, however I only buy brand diesel, and no supermarket shyte has ever been in my car, since ive owned it, also from 19k

I use cataclean at least once a year and wonder what the emmisions are showing on the OP's car, as it could be really clogged up if only doing shortish runs, perhaps the Itallion tune up is required

I also have disabled the DPF and have a blanking plate installed,

steve





Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at




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SJ

posted on 13/10/16 at 04:11 PM Reply With Quote
quote:

I also have the 2.0 Tdci in my Mondeo, and Ford said that the cambelt was to be changed at 80k miles, that is 128 Km

but I do not seem to be getting the pulsing effect, however I only buy brand diesel, and no supermarket shyte has ever been in my car, since ive owned it, also from 19k

I use cataclean at least once a year and wonder what the emmisions are showing on the OP's car, as it could be really clogged up if only doing shortish runs, perhaps the Itallion tune up is required

I also have disabled the DPF and have a blanking plate installed,

steve



I do use the supermarket fuel so guess it could be that. My service book says 125k miles for the cambelt. I was planning to do mine around 100k.

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britishtrident

posted on 13/10/16 at 04:19 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irony
I don't know why my car munches them so quick but I think the engine has been tinkered with prior to my ownership. It is really far to quick for a baby hauler. I'd happily swap 20% power for 20% better economy.


Diesels' require a different driving technique for good economy on a diesel the loud pedal is essentially a fuel tap, the engine always draws a full cylinder of air (ok not really) and compresses it into the combustion volume.

In spark ignition engines the loud pedal is an air valve the carb or injection add fuel to match the ammount of air drawn in. Because on a spark ignition the air is throttled at lower throttle openings it is in effect compressing less air into the combustion chamber volume. In effect the petrol engines have much a lower compression ratio at low throttle openings than they do at full throttle.





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will121

posted on 13/10/16 at 05:58 PM Reply With Quote
CAT or DPF blocked if it has one?
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britishtrident

posted on 13/10/16 at 07:34 PM Reply With Quote
Always do what tests you are able or equiped to to before loading the parts cannon, in the case of a turbo diesel for a performance issue the first steps are visual inspection of the turbo hoses and if it has a MAF try running with the MAF electrical connecter unplugged. Pulling the plug on the MAF as test method will not work on all engines (for example Mercedes diesels) but on many engine types if the car runs better with the MAF disconnected then you have a definitive diagnosis.

Post 2004 diesel cars should in theory be fully EOBDcompliant so live data and fault codes should be available, however Fench manufacturers cars don't tend to be very co-operative in what diagnostic data is availble via generic scan tools.

[Edited on 14/10/16 by britishtrident]





[I] What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .
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nick205

posted on 14/10/16 at 07:48 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nick205
I had a 306 2.0 HDI some years back, good little car, but not overly fast I have to say. Replaced with an (older) 7 seat Alhambra when we went from 1 to 3 children overnight!

From personal experience with that and VAG TDIs clogged diesel filters are very often the issue. They're rarely changed during a garage service and for the low and ease of change they're well worth doing. Even VAG genuine filters are not expensive and have taken me less than 1/2 to change. Some diesel engines self-prime the filter, but others benefit from the new filter being filled with fresh diesel to avoid getting air in the system (engine won't usually start with air in the system).


ETA...while you're under the bonnet check the air filter too. If it's past it's best and strangling the engine of air you'll be going slow!

ETA2...both of the above will see an increase in MPG too as the engine will be working better.

[Edited on 13/10/16 by nick205]

[Edited on 13/10/16 by nick205]



As I said before, try the cheap, quick and easy jobs first to see it things improve. New filters don't do any harm and it gives you a date to work from for subsequent replacements too. Certainly on a number of VAG TDIs I've had good results from diesel filter replacement. 1/2 hr driveway (or roadside) work under the bonnet and then a test drive. Post up your progress/results here as well - it may be of use to others!






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SJ

posted on 14/10/16 at 08:56 AM Reply With Quote
With the diesel filter change on my Mondy I needed a priming pump to get it running afterwards. I just used one of the cheap bulb pumps.
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nick205

posted on 14/10/16 at 10:33 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SJ
With the diesel filter change on my Mondy I needed a priming pump to get it running afterwards. I just used one of the cheap bulb pumps.


I too had a non-starter Seat TDI after a filter change. Filling the filter with fresh diesel sorted it though and the car ran perfectly thereafter. My understanding is that some diesel systems prime the system from the tank and some don't. This that don't can need coaxing back into life.






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Mr Whippy

posted on 14/10/16 at 11:32 AM Reply With Quote
My missus almost destroyed our cmax 2.0dti through just using it for really short journeys in the village, at 55k it barely started, jammed injectors, endless warning lights, blue smoke pouring out the exhaust and brakes & suspension continually needing rebuild costing us about 600 a year on repairs.

Got her a petrol Toyota instead.

Then took the cmax on holiday several times pulling the caravan and Ive been using it everyday to work for months now and its running like a dream. All its previous problems including the smoke and stuck injectors has just vanished. Regularly getting 65-70mpg and its really quick.

Diesels are no use for just short journeys at all.

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mcerd1

posted on 14/10/16 at 01:02 PM Reply With Quote
Vmax1974 - from your other post you said its a 02 plate picasso, so I don't believe it has a DPF
google does suggest the MAF sensor is a common issue and I'm assuming you've tried air and fuel filters by now, but boost leaks are highly likely too...

it happened to my brothers 2.0hdi 206 more than once (a 53 plate so I assume its basically the same setup as yours) in fact its a pity you didn't have this issue a few months back as the thing was sitting waiting for the scrap man (after it failed the MOT on effectively all its suspension and brake components) the engine was the only half decent bit of it left....


quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Regularly getting 65-70mpg and its really quick.

My 1.8 petrol cmax only manages 24~27mpg day to day (stop start all less than 5 mile trips, although I'm not really making much effort to get better economy) or maybe 35 to 38mpg on a longer trip

I don't actually like the way diesels drive anyway, but all these stories about the modern diesels have put me off completely despite the fuel saving....

quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Diesels are no use for just short journeys at all.

the little 1.6 VAG diesels with DPF's are really bad for that too - as my mum found out with her polo and my aunts 2.0TDI Tiguan thing isn't much better - both of them will be getting a petrol next time


[Edited on 14/10/2016 by mcerd1]





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Mr Whippy

posted on 14/10/16 at 01:54 PM Reply With Quote
I've seen the reviews of the smaller engined cmax diesels and yes that do often complain of the bad mpg. However the 2.0 duratorq is amazingly good and the car Id say is way overpowered for such a small car though perfect for towing. Main complaint would be the gearing is just a bit too high as 6th gear is only possible above 50mph, 45mph would be more usable.

Personally I loth diesels, very noisy, terribly small usable rev range takes all the fun out but getting away with just 13 a week on fuel where my Volvo was costing me at least 3 times that forces me to use the cmax. I worked out at the end of the year Id have over 700 extra in my pocket!

[Edited on 14/10/16 by Mr Whippy]

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Mr Whippy

posted on 14/10/16 at 02:07 PM Reply With Quote
Vmax1974 according to wiki the engine in your Picasso is the same as my cmax so must be incredibly ill or even in limp mode.

I'd suggest you go an get it looked at right way before it just blows up. These engines are very expensive for parts if it does get damaged.

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