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Author: Subject: 5vy faults....all 13 of them!!!!
number-1

posted on 6/8/17 at 12:16 PM Reply With Quote
5vy faults....all 13 of them!!!!

Ive had the EML on the dash since the car broke down a few weeks back so, today i went into DIAG mode on the car and to my suprise i didnt just have 1 or 2 fault codes........but 13 of them

Ive never seen so many codes before???

13
15
17
21
22
23
30
41
42
47
48
49

I need to find the list as to what each one means but id be mortified if there were 13 seperate issues? Im hoping they are all linked...possibly by the same wiring!!! Im watching MOTOGP and BSB before i even consider going back to the garage.

Buy a kit car they said. It will be fun they said!!!!

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minitici

posted on 6/8/17 at 01:20 PM Reply With Quote
13 Intake air pressure sensor-open or short circuit detected.

15 Throttle position sensor-open or short circuit detected.

17 EXUP servo motor potentiometer circuit-open or short circuit detected.

21 Coolant temperature sensor-open or short circuit detected.

22 Intake temperature sensor-open or short circuit detected.

23 Atmospheric pressure sensor-open or short circuit detected.

30 The motorcycle has overturned.

41 Lean angle cut-off switch-open or short circuit detected.

42 No normal signals are received from the speed sensor; or, an open or short circuit is detected in the neutral switch.

47 Sub-throttle servo motor potentiometer circuit open or short circuit detected.

48 Sub-throttle servo motor is stuck.

49 nothing listed for fault code 49

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number-1

posted on 6/8/17 at 01:36 PM Reply With Quote
Cheers for that list mate!

Im going to presume (pray) that there is a wire that services all of them parts that has a short circuit.

Ive ruled out the following

17 EXUP servo motor potentiometer circuit-open or short circuit detected.......(Exup removed and eliminator installed so no motor)
30 The motorcycle has overturned......... (As below)
41 Lean angle cut-off switch-open or short circuit detected. ....... (Already tested and all is good, plus car wouldnt start if it was that)


Cheers

N1

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adithorp

posted on 6/8/17 at 03:09 PM Reply With Quote
42 speed sensor will trigger if you've been stationary for a while (5mins) Should go out as soon as it moves if that's all it is.
If you've got an exup eliminator circuit the fault code shouldn't trigger.


With that many codes I'd look for a common earth fault for starters.





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Slimy38

posted on 6/8/17 at 06:26 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
With that many codes I'd look for a common earth fault for starters.


The first thing I'd do would be to clear them and see how many come back? Although that's for OBDII codes, does your DIAG device work the same IE keep all codes in memory until they're cleared?

I've seen loads of people throw a wobbly because they've used an OBD device in a 'new to them' car, thinking they've bought a lemon when in actual fact they're codes from many years ago that were fixed but not cleared.

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number-1

posted on 6/8/17 at 07:11 PM Reply With Quote
THeres no OBD port on the loom unforunately

There is a way to clear the codes from the ECU via the dash but it requires a std bike set up........ignition barrel that has 1st and second stage igniton plus a kill switch.....My car has a battery isolater red key and a toggle switch on the dash and a start button and ive not been able to clear them using the workshop manual technique.

The only thing i can find so far is

22 Intake temperature sensor-open or short circuit detected.

Ive tested the wires with a multimeter going to it and they are fine but when i test the sensor there is no reading. But im not sure if this would throw the EML on?

Im not fussed about stored codes s long s i can find the fault causing the EML to be on

The car runs rough when its warmed up so maybe the fault is that sensor?

N1

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gremlin1234

posted on 6/8/17 at 07:46 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
There is a way to clear the codes from the ECU via the dash but it requires a std bike set up
might the fault codes clear if you disconnected the battery overnight?

[Edited on 6/8/17 by gremlin1234]

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number-1

posted on 6/8/17 at 08:00 PM Reply With Quote
Ive tried that too with no luck. Ive even tried another ecu!!
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adithorp

posted on 6/8/17 at 08:55 PM Reply With Quote
Reset of the codes is either by switching on or starting and idling for most codes. A few need to idle for a time or need revving or driving. Then they clear themselves if the fault if gone. They don't stay on until cleared from a memory. Every code I've had has gone as soon as I fixed the problem and started up. Exact details are in section 7 of the Yam' manual.

In the end I suspect it all probably comes back to how the loom has been modified.





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Neville Jones

posted on 7/8/17 at 10:20 AM Reply With Quote
Sounds like a single earth for the lot is missing, or the (5V?) power for them has gone.
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adithorp

posted on 7/8/17 at 12:28 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
Sounds like a single earth for the lot is missing, or the (5V?) power for them has gone.


Agreed.

Worth noting most of the things those codes relate to are in the throttle body sub-harness so checking the sub-harmess to main loom plug might be a good place to start.





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TimC

posted on 7/8/17 at 12:41 PM Reply With Quote
I need to stop reading this post - it's making me flap (again) about my Frankenstein loom....






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number-1

posted on 7/8/17 at 09:01 PM Reply With Quote
Stupid question.....but when you say the 5V? power to them has gone.....what does this mean?

Electrics are like magic to me......

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minitici

posted on 8/8/17 at 03:29 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by number-1
Stupid question.....but when you say the 5V? power to them has gone.....what does this mean?

Electrics are like magic to me......


The ECU produces 5 volt signal power for various sensors.

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adithorp

posted on 8/8/17 at 04:15 PM Reply With Quote
Think we might have a winner.

There's a black wire with blue tracer from the ECU that supplies all the affected circuits. It's the only wire thats common to all the sensors listed in your faults.

It also supplies the crank sensor (which isn't showing a fault) so check that is getting 5v and then follow the b/l wire to the affected circuits and see if you can find a break. My guess would be the throttle body sub-harness connector as the crank sensor connects in before that but all the other stuff is after it.





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number-1

posted on 8/8/17 at 08:20 PM Reply With Quote
Adi, cheers for that mate.

I forgot to mention that car car has a USA loom as the builder didnt want a UK loom with immobiliser on it.

Ive checked the following

13 Intake air pressure sensor-open or short circuit detected. (need to test)

15 Throttle position sensor-open or short circuit detected. (need to test)

17 EXUP servo motor potentiometer circuit-open or short circuit detected........This is eliminated so happy its not that.

21 Coolant temperature sensor-open or short circuit detected. (need to test)

22 Intake temperature sensor-open or short circuit detected...........Happy this works after testing

23 Atmospheric pressure sensor-open or short circuit detected........Happy this works after testing

41 Lean angle cut-off switch-open or short circuit detected...........Tested this and it works

42 No normal signals are received from the speed sensor; or, an open or short circuit is detected in the neutral switch. (need to test)

47 Sub-throttle servo motor potentiometer circuit open or short circuit detected. (need to test)

48 Sub-throttle servo motor is stuck. (need to test)

49 nothing listed for fault code 49

Now, ive managed to partly trace the wire you mentioned Adi and it goes to the tip over sensor, Intake air temp sensor and also the starter circuit cut off relay....

I mention this as on the odd occasion, the car hasnt turned off when ive hit the cut off on the dash and ive had to use the battery isolator to kill the engine. Ive tested the switch and it appears correct however its only done it or 3 times out of 50 starts

Also, i had an episode of the starter relay blowing the 15 amp fuse whenever i turned the power on via the dash. I thought this was a bare wire that i found but repaired it........however, today it did it again and blew the fuse?!?!?

Ive tried to test the starter circuit cut off relay as per the manual (fault code 43 in the book) but not managed any readings however when fitted the car does start

I feel this may be a looooooooooong fault finding misison!!

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adithorp

posted on 8/8/17 at 09:21 PM Reply With Quote
On the wiring diagram the US loom/ECU is exactly the same as the euro one (all the wires for the immobiliser aren't shown in any diagram) and from memory there was only one wire I couldn't ID in my US loom that I think was probably immobiliser related.

The problem you have is you don't know what was done to mod' the loom to fit the car. Some bits will have been extended, some alterations to get around the start logic circuit (side stand, neutral, clutch switch, etc), some might have been removed (lighting circuits) removed some stuff might have been spliced in. What switches do you have for ignition and start? Has the original ignition and kill switches been extended or have they extended the wires and fitted different switches or has something completely different been rigged. It should never continue to run when switched of and shouldn't blow fuses. You need to get your head around the wiring and get to the bottom of the issue.

This is a pretty good description of how it's usually done... Mainly because most of us have copied it.
http://www.robcollingridge.com/kitcar/design/engine/electrics.html





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number-1

posted on 11/8/17 at 08:21 PM Reply With Quote
Cheers for the link Adi

Today i spent 10 hours out with the car testing and stripping heatshrink/tape to expose wire looking for issues

The only thing i found wiring wise was a blue/black wire that was broken but still able to sometimes make contact with the severed end. This went into the starter cut off relay. This is now repaired but the EML is still on but could be why the starter solenoid fuse blew?

13 Intake air pressure sensor-open or short circuit detected.........Happy this works after testing

15 Throttle position sensor-open or short circuit detected.....Happy this works after testing

17 EXUP servo motor potentiometer circuit-open or short circuit detected........This is eliminated so happy its not that.

21 Coolant temperature sensor-open or short circuit detected. (need to test)

22 Intake temperature sensor-open or short circuit detected...........Happy this works after testing

23 Atmospheric pressure sensor-open or short circuit detected........Happy this works after testing

41 Lean angle cut-off switch-open or short circuit detected...........Tested this and it works

42 No normal signals are received from the speed sensor; or, an open or short circuit is detected in the neutral switch. (need to test)

47 Sub-throttle servo motor potentiometer circuit open or short circuit detected. (need to test)

48 Sub-throttle servo motor is stuck. (need to test)

49 nothing listed for fault code 49

Its now showing Crank position sensor as a fault but ive unplugged it from the loom and the car won start. When i plug it back in it does so im happy it works

Its all a bit of a ball ache to be honest lol

Is there a way of removing the ECU and clearing the codes? I cant clear them in situ as the wiring harness has been hacked/ammended and the kill switch wiring isnt there anymore so cant do the delete as per the manual as i need the kill switch.

Cheers for any input and appologies for the griefy post


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adithorp

posted on 11/8/17 at 10:31 PM Reply With Quote
When you say... "Happy this works after testing" you mean you've tested the component? Just because a code say temp sensor doesn't mean the fault is in the component. It can just as easily be in the wiring especially if the code is for open or short circuit. All the faults you're showing are on the 5v fee from the ECU black wire with blue tracer. I still say you have a break, partial break or short to earth somewhere on that circuit.

The codes clear themselves once the fault isn't present... when you cure it they'll go out. I've not come across the clearing procedure you mention; Where is it in the manual?





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number-1

posted on 12/8/17 at 08:08 AM Reply With Quote
Hi mate, the clearing process is in the workshop manual......You go into DIAG then to 62, you then turn the kill switch off then on and it clears the codes apparantly. Its either in the FI section or ELEC section towards the rear of the manual

Regarding the sensors im happy with......ive followed the testing instructions from the manual for resistance and volts etc and they are all within the parameters...so yes, just the componant tested.

Regarding the black/blue wire.....there was a broken wire of that colour near the starter cut off relay but thats now repaired.

Is there an easy way to test the wiring for a short to earth or broken wire? Ive tested the connectors that go to the sensors and they alll have power going to them. As Adi mentioned, the OEM harness has been much modified and lots of it are nothing like what it would have been.

As you can probably guess.......im learning on the job about wiring and car electrics as ive never touched a multimeter before

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adithorp

posted on 12/8/17 at 01:59 PM Reply With Quote
If you trace the red with white tracer wires (comes from the main switch and there's lots of branches of it) and find it joined somewhere to red with black tracer (and goes to the starter cut-off relay and also the the coils) thats probably where the kill switch was. Fitting an on/off there will reinstate the kill switch.

The only blue with black tracer going to the starter cut off goes to the sidestand switch and is usually bypassed by connecting it direct to earth instead. There's also a blue with black feeds 12v from the main switch to the ECU.
The circuit I think you have an issue with is black with blue tracer (so mainly black) though so find that and check it.

I think the bit you think clears the code is just get's you out of the diagnostic mode not clears the codes . If you look at the component testing procedures you'll see that it says at the end of each test how the code clears itself either by switching the ignition on, starting the engine, moving the car etc. If the light is on then code/faults are actually present.





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number-1

posted on 12/8/17 at 08:11 PM Reply With Quote
Well.....another day out there trying to trace wires and work out what the hell im doing...........and i think ive fixed it!

The exup delete relay.......


All of the sensors that were listed as faults were tested but as i replaced them i used contact cleaner. Today i did the same with the exup delete relay and to start with nothing happened, but as i removed it and replaced it again i saw the eml go out! I removed it and the light came back on, replaced it and it went out!!!

I did this loads of times and when its plugged back in, the eml goes out!! The car runs ok now when its warm too!

No idea what or why but it works!!!

I have removed a few bits of the loom that were not needed (my eighbour did lol) and re routed most of it and insulated most of it again and it looks pretty good

Thanks for any advice Adi, it is really appreciated

In a perverse sort of way....I enjoyed getting down and dirty with the electrics and sort of understand the concept behind it!

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adithorp

posted on 12/8/17 at 09:45 PM Reply With Quote
Sounds like a poor connection in the delete relay terminals or board. I made my own but have heard of some being sold having high numbers of failures.





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