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Author: Subject: MOT Emissions
pekwah1

posted on 10/9/19 at 12:29 PM Reply With Quote
MOT Emissions

Hi Guys,

Going to have to arrange my first ever MOT after IVA, i just wanted to get some advice on emissions.
My car is running a 2.0 blacktop Zetec with a log inlet manifold and usual 4 branch exhaust running on standard ECU, did have a Cat for IVA but since been removed.

My logbook states the following which doesn't mean much to me, basically will i need to refit a cat to get this to pass?

"Emission Limit: %CO 0.5; 0.3 FI HC 0.02FI; LAMBDA 0.97-1.03"

Thanks in advance,
Andy

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loggyboy

posted on 10/9/19 at 12:49 PM Reply With Quote
Yours is a Q yes? Will be smoke only.

For emissions purposes only you should treat the following as first used before 1 August 1975:

- kit cars and amateur built vehicles first used before 1 August 1998
- Wankel rotary engined vehicles first used before 1 August 1987
- Q plated vehicles


https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/class3457/Section-8-Nuisance.html#section_8.2

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pekwah1

posted on 10/9/19 at 12:52 PM Reply With Quote
This is where there is some conflict - the V5 logbook itself specifically states the emissions to be tested against, i believe this should take precedent over the MOT guidelines but i'm no expert, maybe i need to give a call to my local MOT guys and just ask them....
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loggyboy

posted on 10/9/19 at 01:23 PM Reply With Quote
From what ive seen recently posted, testers are trying to do it based on v5c but its pretty clear both on gov site and mot manual. Suspect a friendly garage would help, or a least one thats prepared to listen.
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perksy

posted on 10/9/19 at 03:22 PM Reply With Quote
Some testers seem to rely on what the emissions figures stated on the V5 are and others go for visible smoke

I've had a few discussions with testers over the years on the interpretation

Usually if the tester has experience of kit cars there should not be a problem ?

[Edited on 10/9/19 by perksy]

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theconrodkid

posted on 10/9/19 at 03:37 PM Reply With Quote
best to find a tester who knows the rules, a lot dont and wont listen.





who cares who wins
pass the pork pies

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big_wasa

posted on 10/9/19 at 04:29 PM Reply With Quote
Talking of rules,

When I last mote'd mine I was chatting about my plans for an engine change.

He was adamant that if the engine was newer than the reg then he would need to test it against the higher emissions of the engine and not what's on the v5c. Age related E plate if it makes any odds.

Any truth in this ?

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SPYDER

posted on 10/9/19 at 06:07 PM Reply With Quote
^^^^^^^ None AFAIK. Find a different test station.
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gremlin1234

posted on 10/9/19 at 08:10 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Talking of rules,

When I last mote'd mine I was chatting about my plans for an engine change.

He was adamant that if the engine was newer than the reg then he would need to test it against the higher emissions of the engine and not what's on the v5c. Age related E plate if it makes any odds.

Any truth in this ?

If a vehicle first used before 1 September 2002 is fitted with an engine that's older than the vehicle, you must test it to the standards applicable for the engine. The vehicle presenter must have proof of the age of the engine.

If a vehicle first used on or after 1 September 2002 is fitted with a different engine, you must test it to the emissions standards for the age of the vehicle.

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SPYDER

posted on 10/9/19 at 09:23 PM Reply With Quote
There's a section in loggyboy's post above that I've never seen before, quoted from mot tester manual. The same section appears in the DVSA " In service Exhaust Standard" publication...


The following types of vehicle will be considered as first used before 1 August 1975
(Visual Test):
• Wankel rotary engined vehicles first used before 1 August 1987.
• All kit-cars and amateur built vehicles first used before 1 August 1998.

It's the last line above. It puts any kit car first used before Aug 1998 in the "visible smoke only" class, not just "Q" plates.
No mention of engine age or V5 limits.

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MikeRJ

posted on 13/9/19 at 07:04 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Yours is a Q yes? Will be smoke only.

For emissions purposes only you should treat the following as first used before 1 August 1975:

- kit cars and amateur built vehicles first used before 1 August 1998
- Wankel rotary engined vehicles first used before 1 August 1987
- Q plated vehicles


https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/class3457/Section-8-Nuisance.html#section_8.2


And then right underneath that:

quote:
MOT Manual
Kit cars and amateur built vehicles first used on or after 1 August 1998 must have either Single Vehicle Approval (SVA) or Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA).

You must test kit cars or amateur built vehicles to the limits in the vehicle's registration document (V5c). If the V5c does not show any limits, you must test it to the limits of the engine fitted at the time of the SVA or IVA test.


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SJ

posted on 13/9/19 at 07:33 PM Reply With Quote
quote:

You must test kit cars or amateur built vehicles to the limits in the vehicle's registration document (V5c). If the V5c does not show any limits, you must test it to the limits of the engine fitted at the time of the SVA or IVA test.



How would the tester know what emissions/ engine was fitted at IVA? Is it on a VOSA database?

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obfripper

posted on 13/9/19 at 08:00 PM Reply With Quote
The Q plate trumps all other rules - straight to visual smoke only even with V5c limits present, there are quite a few other exemptions for Q plate cars elsewhere in the manual, all related to the vehicle age/origin being indiscriminate.

quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
MOT Manual
Kit cars and amateur built vehicles first used on or after 1 August 1998 must have either Single Vehicle Approval (SVA) or Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA).

You must test kit cars or amateur built vehicles to the limits in the vehicle's registration document (V5c). If the V5c does not show any limits, you must test it to the limits of the engine fitted at the time of the SVA or IVA test.




I hadn't spotted the change to the manual in your quote, previously the wording was "If the V5c does not show any limits, you must test it to the limits applicable to the date of first registration".

I had previously asked the DVSA to amend the wording to include use of the MAC certificate type code to give emissions limits in lieu of V5c data, but they had dissmissed it as too complicated and the DVLA don't make any mistakes! However this looks like an alternative that should work in most circumstances, effectively any age related kit should be tested to plate age.
This only leaves 'new registration' kits with any ambiguity over limits, as it is possible to have a new reg with any of the existing emissions categories (due to recon engines being accepted as new), and after an engine change the category would not longer be obvious.

Dave

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