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Author: Subject: Uber and losses
cliftyhanger

posted on 25/11/19 at 07:15 PM Reply With Quote
Uber and losses

I am having real difficulty with this. Uber seems to be attempting to take over the world (of minicabs) BUT is making massive losses .
So is there an expectation they will turn a profit at some point?? But surely their prices will have to go up significantly so use will drop??

Or is this a brave new world where being solvent and actually making money is irrelevant?

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Bluemoon

posted on 25/11/19 at 07:58 PM Reply With Quote
Establishment of a world wide brand... odd times indeed.. still may fail leaving investors out of pocket..
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jollygreengiant

posted on 25/11/19 at 08:01 PM Reply With Quote
IF you have EVER been a Taxi driver, then you will understand WHAT their problems are, and, eventualy, ................................. you aint far of the mark. Drivers HAVE to work all the hours to make ends meet. Medical = usually about £120. Driver hackney licence = whatever the local council wants to charge. Insurance, well go figure including public liability and doing probably 100,000 miles annually. Fuel costs = £?, Servicing and repair cost (usually no warranty on a Taxi for parts). Cleaning of car =£?. Plus EXTRA for when some kindly person throws up in the vehicle, AND you are OFF the road till its dry (imaginer that on a Friday/Saturday night when its a good shift and you can't because someone CAN'T hold their drink:mad
Then you HAVER to keep money back for tax, National insurance, VAT (because you will possibly have to register for it). Then some one dings your car - YEP - You are off the road AGAIN till its fixed. Did i mention MOT test PLUS 3 OR 4 HACKNEY tests per year (like an MOT, BUT, over all condition comes in and for slight blemishes you can be off the road UNTIL fixed and RETESTED) (re tests chargeable chargeable). and so it goes on.





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sdh2903

posted on 25/11/19 at 08:14 PM Reply With Quote
Same as Tesla. Their losses and debts are astounding.
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Slimy38

posted on 25/11/19 at 08:24 PM Reply With Quote
I used to think taxi's were very expensive... then I realised how much they actually earn after the bucketloads of deductions. My sisters boyfriend used to be proud of the fact that he could pull in £500 for a 12 hour shift, then I realised he was talking about Christmas day, or new years eve, or any number of times when people are more interested in being with friends and family instead of ferrying strangers round for pennies. Oh, and that's £500 gross, not net.

But this will be interesting to watch;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50544283

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cliftyhanger

posted on 25/11/19 at 08:46 PM Reply With Quote
My Dad, although never a taxi driver, knew many and was the captain of the local taxi drivers golf association (go figure!)
Anyway, back then drivers used to have a fairly comfortable lifestyle. But that was Taxis, so they were always busy off the ranks in Brighton. Private hire has always looked trickier to make a living at, but with apps etc it will be the future I reckon. Just think of all those wet cold evenings standing at a taxi rank, 2am and a 25 minute wait. Now press a button and one appears fairly quickly.
However, it MUST be dragging the industry downhill, and once all the competition is gone, then prices go up? But I reckon somebody will always come along and try to undercut the others. After all it isn't a complex business.

But it seems Uber are not the only ones. Seems most start ups have almost unlimited funds. And markets get crowded driving revenues down. Not exactly healthy.

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theconrodkid

posted on 25/11/19 at 10:29 PM Reply With Quote
it MUST be dragging the industry downhill, and once all the competition is gone, then prices go up?

exactly, thats what stobart and stagecoach did





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bi22le

posted on 25/11/19 at 11:07 PM Reply With Quote
These are two different topics in one.

1 - Being a driver. It must be getting harder to earn good wedge but when I was growing up (37 now) my mates dad was a black can driver. Single income they had a large extended 4 bed house. Bigger then my family home and my dad was in IT.

2 - The modern world of a global tech company. In time I think some serious bubbles are going to pop. As OP states, the ability to be so large and turn no profit is dodgey AF. I think most of then right off profit against investment and R&D, both tx deductable. It also goes to show things are not right when more established bands try and compete and then go out of business because of it.





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Dingz

posted on 25/11/19 at 11:42 PM Reply With Quote
Have you forgotten that company that sold books at a loss for years called Amazon?
Mind you not paying tax helps them.





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coyoteboy

posted on 26/11/19 at 12:45 AM Reply With Quote
THere's a weird dual view here. People defending the uber drivers. And then every uber driver I've ever shared the 30 minute drive home with, who's said they love it, it pays well and don't know what all the negativity is about.

Im torn, normally it's the other way around in such conversations.





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SJ

posted on 26/11/19 at 07:31 AM Reply With Quote
I suspect Uber's medium to long term plan doesn't include the good (or bad) ladies and gentlemen who currently pilot their cars. Once drivers are out of the equation the business model is very different.
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steve m

posted on 26/11/19 at 08:29 AM Reply With Quote
The reason Uber has lost there licence has nothing to do with fares etc

Its to do with un licenced drivers pretending to be licenced under the Uber umbrella

And I for one, totally agree, as these unlicenced drivers pose risks to the Girls and Women traveling

steve





Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at




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Dingz

posted on 26/11/19 at 08:59 AM Reply With Quote
Have you forgotten that company that sold books at a loss for years called Amazon?
Mind you not paying tax helps them.
Sorry no idea why this has posted again.

[Edited on 26/11/19 by Dingz]





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russbost

posted on 26/11/19 at 09:15 AM Reply With Quote
Many modern, global companies have a business plan that will show losses for anything up to maybe 5 or even 10 years. Theory is you grow your global brand, stomaching the losses (not quite sure who's stumping up the money for that, coz the banks won't unless they have some form of collateral in place) which should gradually reduce year on year (seem to remember reading this about lastminute.com years ago) as the global market grows. Eventually you reach the tipping point which should be whilst the company still has substantial further growth in the pipeline, once at that point small profit can quickly become enormous.

There is, of course, the other minor detail that just because you're making a loss for tax purposes doesn't actually mean you are making a loss in the way an average bloke in the street would expect





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cliftyhanger

posted on 26/11/19 at 09:55 AM Reply With Quote
Just been thinking again.
What are Uber spending the money on?
They are not much cheaper than other minicabs? Yet on paper their losses are a huge amount of revenue.SO either they are heavily subsidising the fares OR loads is being spent elsewhere? I know they are having a go at driverless cars, and maybe hope to pick up food delivery etc. but what else?

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coyoteboy

posted on 26/11/19 at 11:30 AM Reply With Quote
quote:

They are not much cheaper than other minicabs?



They *very* much are cheaper.

Private hire from work to my house - £22
Black cab from work to my house - £28
Uber from work to my house - £13





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Irony

posted on 26/11/19 at 12:00 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
Same as Tesla. Their losses and debts are astounding.


The investors of Tesla will be footing the costs etc. Either justifying by the promise of future profits etc or feeling warm and cosy about the environment considerations.

However I am not sure Tesla is a good example because establishing a major automotive manufacturer from scratch is incredibly difficult task as you have no existing products to help fund your next product. I think I read somewhere that Tesla is the only company to do it in a very very long time.

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sdh2903

posted on 26/11/19 at 12:45 PM Reply With Quote
quote:


The investors of Tesla will be footing the costs etc. Either justifying by the promise of future profits etc or feeling warm and cosy about the environment considerations.

However I am not sure Tesla is a good example because establishing a major automotive manufacturer from scratch is incredibly difficult task as you have no existing products to help fund your next product. I think I read somewhere that Tesla is the only company to do it in a very very long time.


Granted, but look at their financials, they are bringing in more and more revenue year on year (good) and yet they are still not turning a profit, im sure i read they have only had 2 quarters of profit since they started, this year they posted a $700m loss, not for the year, for the Quarter and yet the shareholders keep lapping it up.

Although in comparison to Uber, they look relatively healthy, uber lost $5.2bn in 3 months in the 2nd qtr this year. for the last 2.5 years they have lost nearly $10Bn.

It seems as though if your on trend or can make some bull***t claim to be good for the environment you seem to have billions of investors cash to do as you please.

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Irony

posted on 26/11/19 at 01:51 PM Reply With Quote
quote:

Although in comparison to Uber, they look relatively healthy, uber lost $5.2bn in 3 months in the 2nd qtr this year. for the last 2.5 years they have lost nearly $10Bn.

It seems as though if your on trend or can make some bull***t claim to be good for the environment you seem to have billions of investors cash to do as you please.


I can personally see when Tesla gets the Roadster 2, model Y and the Cybertruck into production and when they have existing well established product lines they will make a shedload of profit. There R&D must be absolutely huge at this time as they are pushing the technology forward. No other car company can boast people queuing in the street for the chance to order one!

However I cannot wrap my head around Ubers losses and how they intend to turn it around. Unless they have serious debts they are paying off etc (software and hardware development perhaps)

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nick205

posted on 26/11/19 at 02:06 PM Reply With Quote
Not being allowed to drive for some time now means public transport and when needs must taxis, Speaking with the drivers they seem to have to work long long hours and suffer a lot of running costs to not actually make that mut net income from it.

As mentioned above when a kindly passenger pukes in your car you're off the road (not earning and either cleaning it yourself or paying out for someone else to clean it).

Many of the drivers simply don't want to work Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights. Yes there may be more people wanting taxis, but invariably the drivers have to deal with people who're very drunk and/or refuse to pay.

Quite a few of the taxis I've been in also have CCTV systems in them as well (at the drivers cost). The drivers simply want the protection of video evidence in the event of any altercation between driver and customer.

When I was driving I considered doing it weekend evenings as a way of making a few extra pennies. On reflection I'm very glad I didn't. I'd not have enjoyed it and I'd be hacked of at the extra wear and tear on my own car (all the local taxi firms in my area use the owner driver setup).

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coyoteboy

posted on 26/11/19 at 03:25 PM Reply With Quote
Playing devil's advocate...

quote:

Many of the drivers simply don't want to work Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights. Yes there may be more people wanting taxis, but invariably the drivers have to deal with people who're very drunk and/or refuse to pay.



I don't want to work Mon-Fri. Tough, I make less money if I only work weekends. So I don't.

quote:

Quite a few of the taxis I've been in also have CCTV systems in them as well (at the drivers cost). The drivers simply want the protection of video evidence in the event of any altercation between driver and customer.



Dash cam with rear facing camera - £40 one off cost, most drivers have one anyway these days.





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nick205

posted on 26/11/19 at 03:51 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Playing devil's advocate...

quote:

Many of the drivers simply don't want to work Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights. Yes there may be more people wanting taxis, but invariably the drivers have to deal with people who're very drunk and/or refuse to pay.



I don't want to work Mon-Fri. Tough, I make less money if I only work weekends. So I don't.

quote:

Quite a few of the taxis I've been in also have CCTV systems in them as well (at the drivers cost). The drivers simply want the protection of video evidence in the event of any altercation between driver and customer.



Dash cam with rear facing camera - £40 one off cost, most drivers have one anyway these days.



Fair comments.

My point on working Thurs, Fri and Sat nights was doing those shifts after they'd already done a long week working days (or nights).

True, many motorists do have dashcams these days and the costs may not be astranonomical to buy the kit or even to have it fitted. The fottage captured is one more thing the taxi driver has to store etc. Although I guess it could be captured on an SD card and recorded over nothing untoward occured during the shift. Still more time and expense overall for the driver though.

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Angel Acevedo

posted on 26/11/19 at 04:56 PM Reply With Quote
Some computer wiz kid told me that Uber gets their share of money by farming information derived from their users database.
Trips, time enroute, preferred routes, business they prefer...
All that must be profitable in some way not currently disclosed...
Wether is a valid point of view or plain conspiranoic nonsense I don´t know.





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rusty nuts

posted on 26/11/19 at 08:32 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by steve m
The reason Uber has lost there licence has nothing to do with fares etc

Its to do with un licenced drivers pretending to be licenced under the Uber umbrella

And I for one, totally agree, as these unlicenced drivers pose risks to the Girls and Women traveling

steve


A few years ago a young girl in Cambridge got into what she thought was a taxi , it might have been New Year’s Eve, she was found murdered dumped in a field . The driver was posing as a licensed operator, he was found a few days later in Scotland having committed suicide.

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SJ

posted on 26/11/19 at 10:12 PM Reply With Quote
Years ago I used to regularly pick my girlfriend up from work dos in London. Driving up outside a venue the amount of times I had to yell 'no, I'm not your bloody taxi' doesn't bear thinking about. Drunk young people will climb into anything with wheels at 1 in the morning.
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