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Author: Subject: Rear HUB two issues (60mm sierra type push-in in MNR Vortx)
Andrzejsr

posted on 18/1/21 at 07:39 PM Reply With Quote
Rear HUB two issues (60mm sierra type push-in in MNR Vortx)

I have (as I deducted, if wrong please correct me !) rear hubs im MNR Vortx - aluminium, for push in (tripod type ) driveshaft :

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15TjYat1DXoqf3MPQf75gDQ6jxsEHBtYm/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15NzwSoQlFZ7drgraLZ-gTa7RZ3tZFBps/view?usp=sharing

(i think those are like those from kitcardirect : http://www.kitcardirect.co.uk/ford-sierra-rear-aluminium-billet-bearing-carrier-60mm-pair.html )

My two questions to You experienced kitcar Builders :

1. I have found that the torque on the nut when fitting this hub with bearings on driveshaft is approx 300-350Nm (!) wonder if I did found proper values as those are cone-shaped bearings . Front cone shaped bearings requires far less torque !

2. after dissasembling I was going to only clean ands change the simmerings and grease fore new, but I thought that maybe I change the bearings for new if all disasembled. But - as taking off the races seems to be not so easy, and dont want to destroy the bearing carrier - I wonder If it is ok to leave the bearings races and change only the internal parts with rollers (dont know proper term in English - basket? You know, the main part in which we put the grease in). Races seems to be ok visually.

[Edited on 18/1/21 by Andrzejsr]

[Edited on 18/1/21 by Andrzejsr]





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jps

posted on 18/1/21 at 08:20 PM Reply With Quote
This suggests your 350nm is a bit high, but yes they are done up very tightly: http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=171589

Personally I would change the whole bearing. I did mine, which are similar but for discs/bolt on drive shafts. You can drift the outer races out - although you need to be careful. I bought a brass rod to use as a drift.

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daviep

posted on 18/1/21 at 08:31 PM Reply With Quote
1. JPS's torque is correct but the bearings will not actually being squeezed tighly, the hub and spline will mate to leave the correct space for the bearings.

2. It's not good practice to mix and match bearing parts. If they are OK give them a clean, if they show wear change them properly. To remove the outer cones run nice a big weld around the inside of the bearing, as the weld cools and contracts it will shrink the bearing which will then drop out or knock out very easily.



[Edited on 18/1/21 by daviep]





A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.

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rusty nuts

posted on 18/1/21 at 08:43 PM Reply With Quote
The tip with the welder is a good one , the bearing often falls out as it cools . You may find after fitting the bearings and tightening the hub nut the hub is difficult to turn, this is normal and will ease when it has turned a few times
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Andrzejsr

posted on 18/1/21 at 10:16 PM Reply With Quote
Thank You!

Inf fact before dissasembling ( car is bought used - starter projekt so was not sure) I tightened the nut stronger than IT was just with hand wrench . And then it was harder to turn so thought there is something wrong so dissasembled..
When cleaning dropped one of the bearings and bend its "basket" . Thats why thinking of assembling with new just for sure.

Was changing the bearings with races on front (hispec Cortina type) , was not easy, do thought maybe leave the old races this time.

I have only little experience with welder and MMA type. IT makes a lot of mess around. Not sure its proper for the job if IT not destroy the surfaces . I better Ask someone experienced to do this.
But thnaks for the tip! At least I know what to ask for

Once again thank You all! IT helps me a lot!

[Edited on 18/1/21 by Andrzejsr]





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jps

posted on 19/1/21 at 11:11 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Andrzejsr
Thank You!

Inf fact before dissasembling ( car is bought used - starter projekt so was not sure) I tightened the nut stronger than IT was just with hand wrench . And then it was harder to turn so thought there is something wrong so dissasembled..
When cleaning dropped one of the bearings and bend its "basket" . Thats why thinking of assembling with new just for sure.

Was changing the bearings with races on front (hispec Cortina type) , was not easy, do thought maybe leave the old races this time.

I have only little experience with welder and MMA type. IT makes a lot of mess around. Not sure its proper for the job if IT not destroy the surfaces . I better Ask someone experienced to do this.
But thnaks for the tip! At least I know what to ask for

Once again thank You all! IT helps me a lot!

[Edited on 18/1/21 by Andrzejsr]


I'm not confident enough to try the weld trick - I put my carriers into the oven (can't remember the time/temp - maybe something like 200degrees for 45 mins) and the races were then a lot easier to drift out.

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rusty nuts

posted on 19/1/21 at 05:39 PM Reply With Quote
If you have torqued up your Cortina front hubs you will have major problems. The nut should be tightened just enough to take out any play , I usually tighten the nut by hand then just back it off a tiny bit
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Andrzejsr

posted on 19/1/21 at 06:02 PM Reply With Quote
At the front (cortina) I have learned how to do it, know that there is a little tightening needed (did over 1000km of track only with westfield with cortina type front hubs) .
That is why I was not sure of so hight torque values for this rear hub and the bearings are cone shape also.
But now understand that in rear should be tight . Now looking for proper bearings .





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Andrzejsr

posted on 20/1/21 at 02:19 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by daviep
1. JPS's torque is correct but the bearings will not actually being squeezed tighly, the hub and spline will mate to leave the correct space for the bearings.
...

[Edited on 18/1/21 by daviep]



As I am looking for proper bearings ,I have found that there are three different width of bearings for this application. Both types are 60mm OD, 35mm ID but - some are 18mm of width, some 16mm and some 18,5mm.

Thinking about those high torque - squeeeze values for those bearings I wonder - should both inside and outside bearings touch together ? - in the space I marked there (arrows apexex) :

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1527jpQA6xTEx0axvzySZ-NgvLy5xkXwb/view?usp=sharing

Or does it not matter for the squeeze if they touch together ?

As there are 16mm, 18mm and 18,5mm width bearings for this aplication, so if they need to touch each other to torque properly, then not all would be appriopriate. For sure two 16mm are not touching each other. Also one 16mm and one 18mm does not (such bearings I have to try) .
If not one bearing against the other , then how they could be tightened so strong ?

[Edited on 20/1/21 by Andrzejsr]





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Andrzejsr

posted on 23/1/21 at 10:48 AM Reply With Quote
Update :

Tried the "oven route" and it worked great - after 10-15 min in small oven, one race just felt , second needed 2-3 really light taps and out!





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jps

posted on 23/1/21 at 06:18 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Andrzejsr
Update :

Tried the "oven route" and it worked great - after 10-15 min in small oven, one race just felt , second needed 2-3 really light taps and out!

Im sure I picked up the technique from info on here anyway, but glad it worked for you!

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