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Author: Subject: Dipstick reading too much oil!
lordbenny

posted on 3/9/21 at 03:38 PM Reply With Quote
Dipstick reading too much oil!

Iíve had the car a year and itís time for another oil service and Iíve got the same conundrum as last year....

My Sylva J15 has a mid mounted Zetec S 1.7 engine from a Ford Puma. Iíve been reliably informed by Jenko (Heís a member on here, you may know him!) that the sump isnít not modified and neither is the dipstick and the engine is level.

The engine is supposed to take 4.6 litres if oil but after draining the engine, on the flat and on an incline to get what I think is every last drop out, when I refill I can only get about 3.5 litres in. Even then the dipstick reads well over!

So, what do I do? I either....

A) Put the recommended amount of oil in and not pay any attention to the dipstick.This will read well over an inch above the top dipstick level indicator.
B) Go by the dipstick and hope I havenít drained all the oil out which is why I canít seem to get the required amount in.
C) Put enough oil so that it is over the dipstick top mark by a bit but not loads!

How much oil can be left in an engine after a drain...could that be my issue?

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obfripper

posted on 3/9/21 at 03:49 PM Reply With Quote
Have you got a 1.4/1.6 zetec se sump fitted?

IIRC they hold 3.75l with a filter change instead of 4.6l, you should be able to check the part number of the sump pan to verify, afaik they are a straight swap.

Dave

ETA the 1.7 sump has a pressed steel bowl so should be obvious.

[Edited on 3/9/21 by obfripper]

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hellbent345

posted on 3/9/21 at 06:33 PM Reply With Quote
Where has your waste oil got to? Canít you measure how much youíve taken out and put the same amount back in? What did you do last time?





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lordbenny

posted on 3/9/21 at 06:38 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by obfripper
Have you got a 1.4/1.6 zetec se sump fitted?

IIRC they hold 3.75l with a filter change instead of 4.6l, you should be able to check the part number of the sump pan to verify, afaik they are a straight swap.

Dave

ETA the 1.7 sump has a pressed steel bowl so should be obvious.

[Edited on 3/9/21 by obfripper]


Iíll have a look next time Iím under the car bug I think the builder (Jenko) would have told me if heíd changed the sump.

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lordbenny

posted on 3/9/21 at 06:40 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hellbent345
Where has your waste oil got to? Canít you measure how much youíve taken out and put the same amount back in? What did you do last time?


Good question...

I was in the same quandary this time last year...I removed about 3 litres and ran the car just above the max dipstick level bug Iíve never been happy about this as Iíd prefer to know why I canít get over 3.5 litres in!

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lordbenny

posted on 3/9/21 at 06:41 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lordbenny
quote:
Originally posted by obfripper
Have you got a 1.4/1.6 zetec se sump fitted?

IIRC they hold 3.75l with a filter change instead of 4.6l, you should be able to check the part number of the sump pan to verify, afaik they are a straight swap.

Dave

ETA the 1.7 sump has a pressed steel bowl so should be obvious.

[Edited on 3/9/21 by obfripper]


Iíll have a look next time Iím under the car bug I think the builder (Jenko) would have told me if heíd changed the sump.


Itís an ally sump cover

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lordbenny

posted on 3/9/21 at 06:45 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lordbenny
quote:
Originally posted by obfripper
Have you got a 1.4/1.6 zetec se sump fitted?

IIRC they hold 3.75l with a filter change instead of 4.6l, you should be able to check the part number of the sump pan to verify, afaik they are a straight swap.

Dave

ETA the 1.7 sump has a pressed steel bowl so should be obvious.

[Edited on 3/9/21 by obfripper]


Iíll have a look next time Iím under the car bug I think the builder (Jenko) would have told me if heíd changed the sump.


Itís the same as this one on EBay...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Puma-1-7-litre-small-aluminum-sump-pan-97MF-19830-AA-/181695272097

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obfripper

posted on 3/9/21 at 09:07 PM Reply With Quote
I did think there was a difference between the normal 1.7 and ford racing puma versions, but the pan you have is correct for either, i thought there was a standard steel panned version but it appears not.

The correct capacity is 4.75l dry fill, 4.6l change with oil filter, and 4.15l for oil change only with the pan you have, taken from fords own tech data, so should be correct.
Is there any possiblilty that the dipstick tube or dipstick has been altered or swapped?

Also you mention the engine is upright, the original installation is tilted back approx 15į, is this the reason the dipstick does not read accurately?
This may also affect the oil fill maximum level anyway, as the windage plate part of the sump will become ineffective if the engine is placed too far from its original orientation.

Dave

[Edited on 3/9/21 by obfripper]

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snapper

posted on 4/9/21 at 06:33 AM Reply With Quote
Said it before so Iíll say it again, the dipstick max level is more about the crank not splashing through the oil and turning into froth, adding another inch over max will see oil moving nearer the crank under cornering and braking.
The min mark is about not uncovering the oil pickup.
Oil filter holds about Ĺ litre and is the most common reason for less oil coming out or less needed to reach max.
In this particular case it could be a mix of sump and dipstick combination, itís easier on engines where the dipstick sits in the block like the Pinto.
On my Duratec the critical measurement is the dipstick tube height on the sump relative to the block face and using the original dipstick and tube.
If you drew a line around the outside of the original sump at max oil level on dipstick then replace sump with shorter sump the max level remains the same but as itís a shorter sump you would have less volume to reach the max level (and min)





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lordbenny

posted on 4/9/21 at 07:40 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by snapper
Said it before so Iíll say it again, the dipstick max level is more about the crank not splashing through the oil and turning into froth, adding another inch over max will see oil moving nearer the crank under cornering and braking.
The min mark is about not uncovering the oil pickup.
Oil filter holds about Ĺ litre and is the most common reason for less oil coming out or less needed to reach max.
In this particular case it could be a mix of sump and dipstick combination, itís easier on engines where the dipstick sits in the block like the Pinto.
On my Duratec the critical measurement is the dipstick tube height on the sump relative to the block face and using the original dipstick and tube.
If you drew a line around the outside of the original sump at max oil level on dipstick then replace sump with shorter sump the max level remains the same but as itís a shorter sump you would have less volume to reach the max level (and min)


So, if Iíve got this right...you are saying I should just fill to the top dipstick marker or slightly more?

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Mr Whippy

posted on 4/9/21 at 08:59 AM Reply With Quote
To the top level on the dipstick and no more, with the engine level.
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lordbenny

posted on 4/9/21 at 10:47 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
To the top level on the dipstick and no more, with the engine level.


Thanks for that but I think you need to read the whole thread x

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lordbenny

posted on 4/9/21 at 03:11 PM Reply With Quote
Just backed the car down the drive (my drive is on a slight hill) and put the front wheels on low level ramps so the bottom of the car is lover than the front. The car was at an angle of approx 6 degrees and the dipstick level is pretty good. When itís on the level itís more than 10mm over the top dipstick cut out! Iíve driven the car a few miles today with what the dipstick was telling me was Ďtoo muchí oil it it and Iím sure itís running smoother and quieter.

Iím presuming that, as I have been told, the engine when in the Ford Puma was at a 15 degree angle this will make a fair bit of difference to the dipstick reading when my engine is level so I think Iíll carry on driving up with 10mm over the dip stick level from now on.

Thanks for your advise on this one!

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snapper

posted on 6/9/21 at 07:07 AM Reply With Quote
Yes fill to top mark, if your concerned about how much oil is in your sump get it modified with a wing for more capacity.
A little know fact is that once the engine is running and galleries are filled the oil level in the sump drops, this is difficult to measure as the dipstick will be showered with oil, at the risk of contradicting myself you could slightly overfill but by how much is unclear.
What has not been made clear is what sump and dipstick combination you have, if the dipstick is fitted to a tube in the sump and you have a dipstick from another sump type then all bets are off.





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nick205

posted on 6/9/21 at 03:15 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lordbenny
Just backed the car down the drive (my drive is on a slight hill) and put the front wheels on low level ramps so the bottom of the car is lover than the front. The car was at an angle of approx 6 degrees and the dipstick level is pretty good. When itís on the level itís more than 10mm over the top dipstick cut out! Iíve driven the car a few miles today with what the dipstick was telling me was Ďtoo muchí oil it it and Iím sure itís running smoother and quieter.

Iím presuming that, as I have been told, the engine when in the Ford Puma was at a 15 degree angle this will make a fair bit of difference to the dipstick reading when my engine is level so I think Iíll carry on driving up with 10mm over the dip stick level from now on.

Thanks for your advise on this one!



If the engine was at a 15 degree angle in the Puma and now upright in your car can you not raise the front or rear of your car to get the engine to approx. 15 degrees (as it was in the Puma)?

Then refill with oil and check with the dip stick?

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lordbenny

posted on 6/9/21 at 07:28 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nick205
quote:
Originally posted by lordbenny
Just backed the car down the drive (my drive is on a slight hill) and put the front wheels on low level ramps so the bottom of the car is lover than the front. The car was at an angle of approx 6 degrees and the dipstick level is pretty good. When itís on the level itís more than 10mm over the top dipstick cut out! Iíve driven the car a few miles today with what the dipstick was telling me was Ďtoo muchí oil it it and Iím sure itís running smoother and quieter.

Iím presuming that, as I have been told, the engine when in the Ford Puma was at a 15 degree angle this will make a fair bit of difference to the dipstick reading when my engine is level so I think Iíll carry on driving up with 10mm over the dip stick level from now on.

Thanks for your advise on this one!



If the engine was at a 15 degree angle in the Puma and now upright in your car can you not raise the front or rear of your car to get the engine to approx. 15 degrees (as it was in the Puma)?

Then refill with oil and check with the dip stick?


Yep, pretty much what I did, then filed a new notch in the dipstick!

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nick205

posted on 7/9/21 at 07:14 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lordbenny
quote:
Originally posted by nick205
quote:
Originally posted by lordbenny
Just backed the car down the drive (my drive is on a slight hill) and put the front wheels on low level ramps so the bottom of the car is lover than the front. The car was at an angle of approx 6 degrees and the dipstick level is pretty good. When itís on the level itís more than 10mm over the top dipstick cut out! Iíve driven the car a few miles today with what the dipstick was telling me was Ďtoo muchí oil it it and Iím sure itís running smoother and quieter.

Iím presuming that, as I have been told, the engine when in the Ford Puma was at a 15 degree angle this will make a fair bit of difference to the dipstick reading when my engine is level so I think Iíll carry on driving up with 10mm over the dip stick level from now on.

Thanks for your advise on this one!



If the engine was at a 15 degree angle in the Puma and now upright in your car can you not raise the front or rear of your car to get the engine to approx. 15 degrees (as it was in the Puma)?

Then refill with oil and check with the dip stick?


Yep, pretty much what I did, then filed a new notch in the dipstick!



That's the way I'd have tackled it, then you (+ any future owners) are set for set for future oil services.

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Mr Whippy

posted on 7/9/21 at 09:10 AM Reply With Quote
I always thought this was a great experiment and shows you how much the oil level drops which is quite a lot really

you tube linky

[Edited on 7/9/21 by Mr Whippy]

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lordbenny

posted on 7/9/21 at 06:47 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
I always thought this was a great experiment and shows you how much the oil level drops which is quite a lot really

you tube linky

[Edited on 7/9/21 by Mr Whippy]


Love the fella at 8:26 in the drivers seat!

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