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Author: Subject: braided hose through entire car
MikeR

posted on 21/11/21 at 06:28 PM Reply With Quote
braided hose through entire car

I've always thought braided hose through the entire car was a bad idea for brakes. I recently heard (or I think I did) a Racer saying that's standard for them.

Is braided the entire length of the brakes normal?
Does it have any side effects apart from cost?

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Tatey

posted on 21/11/21 at 07:18 PM Reply With Quote
I have braided lines throughout on my Haynes. I did it is I prefer the look, it was much easier to install and you don't need any tools to fit it. They are used on race cars extensively. The only downside other than cost is your brake pedal feel may be less solid as the braided lines will swell slightly on applying pressure.

You also have to make sure you get every hose length and fitting correct otherwise it is an expensive mistake. Having angled fittings at both ends becomes a nightmare for achieve the correct orientations. If you do go for it make sure you either have an angle and a straight fitting or a straight and a straight.

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indykid

posted on 21/11/21 at 07:25 PM Reply With Quote
If you're not following the original pipe route, for instance running it through the car above the floor, it takes a lot less skill to run a full length flexi. You might get away with removing a joint but it would need some creative bulkhead mounting solutions to support the hose.

If you want to follow the route of an original hard line, it would be a PITA to get enough clips to make the pipe go where you want it though and all the minimum bend radii will be significantly greater.

I'm told overbraided PTFE lines don't have any noticeable give, but directionally, it has to be less stiff than hard lines so would give a softer pedal whether it's obvious or not.

I think I'll stick with kunifer hard lines...





me? ambivalent? well, yes and no

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Theshed

posted on 21/11/21 at 09:12 PM Reply With Quote
Weight? In comparison to Bundy hard lines a braided line must a fair bit heavier. And cost? Hard lines are peanuts in comparison. And flex...dunno. If appearance is the criteria then Chaqu'un a son gout....
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smart51

posted on 21/11/21 at 09:14 PM Reply With Quote
My trike build had braided flexies to the front, but mostly because it would only have needed about 200mm of copper from the master cylinder to the flexies. I did put copper in to the rear but I wouldn't object to full length flexible pipes.
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snapper

posted on 22/11/21 at 05:31 AM Reply With Quote
Itís not worth the cost and the effort, once fitted you canít see most of it anyway.
Itís like gold plating the inside of your fuel tankÖ
Title of the forum is low cost builders.





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ianhurley20

posted on 22/11/21 at 09:02 AM Reply With Quote
VOUGHT (Sylvain) is on here and also on the Haynes Roadster site. He used to be able to supply flexible brake lines although since his move to France I think he no longer can do so (I may be wrong on this!). He made an interesting web site on brake lines and did promote fully flexible brake lines. Here is a link to his web site https://sites.google.com/site/hydraulicforkitcars/home

[Edited on 22/11/21 by ianhurley20]





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russbost

posted on 22/11/21 at 09:21 AM Reply With Quote
There are no real downsides other than cost, which I'll come to in a minute

There is NO expansion in the flexies whatsoever, so the pedal is as firm as it would be with hard pipes

Any weight difference is fractional, so unless you're literally looking to shave weight by a few grams then it makes no difference

Re the comments on fitting/bulkheads etc, they require the same clipping as hard lines, ie min every 30cm & they can pass thro' a bulkhead either thro' a hole with suitable grommet or the pipes can be split at that point & a bulkhead fitting, either male or female, used to pass thro' the bulkhead

Cost depends hugely on whether you're making the copper lines up yourself or if you're getting them made for you, if it's the latter then buying a manufactured flexy is not a lot dearer than a manufactured hard line

If you're seriously thinking about it just drop Oli (obuckle on here) a line at Furore Products info@furoreproducts.co.uk with the details of what you want for a price, I doubt you'll find better or cheaper available, all stainless steel, all guaranteed for life





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Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours. http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1

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MikeR

posted on 22/11/21 at 09:59 AM Reply With Quote
The bit that intrigued me is because I'm doing my lines now. I've plenty of braided (although probably not enough) and the content surprised me. I expected it to be a "must be copper" view. The other advantage for me would be the fact I could dry build the car easier with braided.

(I'm a bit paranoid making the copper flares after trying for years with a rubbish tool.)

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motorcycle_mayhem

posted on 22/11/21 at 10:00 AM Reply With Quote
Entirely 'normal' for a race car, and pretty much the only sensible option.
Some will use 'manufacturers' lines where desired and applicable (e.g. Radical), these are usually encased in an external sheath for abrasion resistance and crimped. Others will use olives, compression joints and avoid the sheathing bit.
Many advantages of flexi lines on the race car, it gets stripped frequently, bits get modified, replaced, bodged, broken, whatever. The lines snake down awkward routes, down the side of single seater 'seats', down sidepods, through electrical harnesses, under engines, chains, etc., etc.

Similarly, fuel hose (etc.) will be braided nitrile with JIC fittings. I favour the PTFE hose (Goodridge 811 for example), because you don't get that fuel vapour smell everywhere. MTBE is not my favourite essence, but is a major constituent of racing Moto fuel. I've also run MeOH on one car (Dallara), for which PTFE was essential (in my mind and opinion).

For a defined chassis kit car though, I can't see any advantage (or need) for the benefits that flexi hoses offer, just not applicable. Solid pipes to all four corners and then crimped (preferably sheathed) flexi hoses to whatever you have on the uprights. Served me well on the stable architecture on my Westfields, durable and cheap, job done. Fuel lines the same way.

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nick205

posted on 22/11/21 at 10:18 AM Reply With Quote
£ Cost £

The nonsense about tool cost is to me - nonsense.

Once you've bought and can use the tools for hard brake lines you've got the tools for a long time. They'll serve you time and again.

Race cars have a much bigger budget than Locosts or the majority of kit cars.

On my MK Indy the flexi hoses used were between chasis (hard brake lines) and brake calipers. To allow for wishbone movement. Even then you've got to pay attention to make sure nothing fouls the flexi hoses as the suspension's moving.


My opinion of course.

[Edited on 22/11/21 by nick205]

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nick205

posted on 22/11/21 at 02:05 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
(I'm a bit paranoid making the copper flares after trying for years with a rubbish tool.)



Get yourself a decent tool and practice doing the flares. With a the right tool and some preactice it's not that hard to do. I probably spent more time/efforrt getting the rigid pipe lengths correct than doing the flares. Initially I figured I could lose excess length by kinking the pipe. Best to get the pipe length right though.

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