djtom
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| posted on 14/6/07 at 11:48 PM |
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Tiger Zetec Turbo - the conversion so far
The Tiger Zetec Turbo story so far…
I'm converting my Tiger Super Six from a 1660 Xflow to run a 2l zetec because I wanted more power, and I decided that a) it wasn't
difficult enough and b) that I wanted more power still, so I decided to turbo it as well. Might have been in the pub when I came up with that idea to
tell the truth, but it seemed to be a good idea at the time.
I've tried to make everything that I could myself, mainly to save money, and because I like fabricating things, but it's amazing what you
still have to buy - the little things really add up....
The original budget was set at £1000, but not for any particularly good reason other than that it sounded like a lot of money and it should be enough.
It wasn’t! If you were better equipped and could fabricate more yourself, or had more luck sniping bits on ebay, you MIGHT be able to do it for under
£2000, but it would be close. Then again, I have done a lot of thinking about the spec, and decided that some of the features that may seem
extravagant are actually more or less essential for longevity and durability. Things like the chargecooler, electronic boost control and wideband
lambda sensor/controller could be deleted, but these enable problems with charge temp, mixture control and boost pressure to be identified, monitored
and controlled. If the engine runs lean at WOT, something will melt. If you don’t identify the exact cause and fix it, then when you rebuild the
engine it will happen again. Pretty soon, it would be cheaper to do it properly in the first place. So, I made a decision to include these bits –
hopefully they will be worth the extra expense, and will take the guesswork out of mapping.
Spec:
2l Mondeo silver top zetec, unknown milage, not fully rebuilt, but with ARP rod bolts, new cambelt, new head gasket kit and 2mm spacer plate to lower
compression to about 8.2:1 Engine looks to be in good nick, with honing marks still on the bores (after probably 120000+miles, that’s not bad going!).
Big end bearings inspected and in good condition.
Standard breather hole blocked up with fabricated plate (turbo gets in way of original breather) and 2 x blanked holes in block drilled out to 16mm
with new breather ports pressed in)
2l mondeo sump, chopped off at 15cm from mating face and new flat base TIG welded onto it. Base and side baffles added inside. Turbo oil return bolted
to side. Part of side removed to clear starter motor (LRS707 from 1.8CVH Sierra). All welded for the price of 4 bottles of wine by a very kind local
LocostBuilder :-)
Type 9 gearbox reused from original XFlow installation. Not sure how long it will last at 200-odd bhp with 200-odd lbft, but we’ll see ….:-) This
needed a new clutch release bearing and a spigot bearing pressed into the end of the crankshaft to suit the Zetec.
Cheap turbo from ebay. IHI TD04H – 15G From a 4.4litre Isuzu turbo diesel as used in a JCB. Very similar spec to the one used on a Volvo T5, but
without an internal wastegate. Should be good for 250bhp looking at the compressor map. Took a while to work out how to “clock” the cold side of the
turbo so that it points downwards rather than towards the engine – you have to take the compressor housing off and grind off a tiny pin which prevents
the compressor housing from rotating against the core. Compressor housing is held on by an enormous and very strong circlip – danger of decapitation
when it slips off the circlip pliers!
Cheap external XSPower wastegate. Spring set at ~6psi, (had to buy new spring as it came with a 15 psi spring!) but boost levels above that controlled
by Escort Cosworth amal valve driven by…
Megasquirt ‘n Spark Extra with extra VB921 coil drivers, boost control output, and switchable boost maps, driving a mondeo coil pack. Mixture control
will be monitored by a wideband lambda sensor and controller (Innovate LC-1) to avoid the possibility of running lean and melting pistons.
370cc/min side feed injectors from a Nissan 200sx turbo, which fit into the standard Mondeo fuel rail, which fits into an inlet manifold made by
Griffin Power. I intended to adapt a Rover 800 Turbo manifold, but I’m running out of time and spotted the manifold on ebay. It wasn’t cheap, but does
fit and saves me a considerable amount of time.
Chargecooling is taken care of by a Pace Products Escort RS Turbo liquid-to-air chargecooler – another ebay special. I need one of the inlets
rewelding to face the other way, but otherwise it should work admirably. The water will be pushed around by a caravan water pump (the chargecooler
didn’t come with a pump) and is cooled by a small radiator to be mounted in front of the main rad.
Turbo oil feed comes from a blanked off oilway next to the oil pressure warning switch – this is 1/4NPT threaded. A custom oil feed pipe feeds from
this to the turbo oil inlet (M10x1.25mm) via a series of adaptors that I haven’t managed to buy yet. (need ¼ NPT to AN -3 for side of block to oil
hose). Turbo oil return is by gravity out of the bottom of the turbo and into the side of the sump via a Sierra Cosworth oil return pipe bolted to the
side of the sump.
Whilst adding bits to the loom to accommodate the extra sensors, I took the dashboard off and discovered a nightmare of bodged wiring and scotchlocks.
Loads of extra circuits had been added to run things that had obviously been added after the car was first built – none of them were fused and all had
been scotch-locked onto the live side of existing circuits. After finding loads more wiring bodges, I pulled the whole lot out, rewired the dashboard
and most of the loom, soldered all of the connectors, covered everything in heatshrink and added fuses for each circuit. Took ages, as I had to work
out what everything did and where it went first, including loads of wires that went exactly…. nowhere. Plenty of cables just cut and taped up with
insulation tape. Not good. I always looked at the price of professional wiring looms and thought they were a ripoff – maybe not! Because I changed the
dashboard layout (half of the gauges were hidden by the steering wheel), the sensors on the zetec are in different places and I had to add the
megasquirt loom, it would have been much easier had I not tried to adapt the xflow loom – I should have just ripped it out and started from
scratch.
To be continued...
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djtom
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| posted on 14/6/07 at 11:50 PM |
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Shopping list so far…..
Turbo and exhaust
£18.00 zetec exhaust manifold plate - locostparts
£8.00 oil feed pipe - ebay
£1.25 1/4 npt nipple - kitcar show
£12.00 Cam belt - ebay
£35.00 external wastegate - ebay
£20.00 5.83psi wastegate spring - xspower
£5.00 T25 turbo to manifold gasket - ebay
£31.00 fuel pump (VW Golf Gti Mk2) - ebay
£40.00 exhaust bends - ebay
£20.50 exhaust tube - ebay
£66.00 turbo - ebay
Engine
£4.00 oil filter - halfords
£151.00 2l zetec - ebay
£45.00 thick head gasket plate - ebay
£4.50 liquid metal - halfords
£20.00 sump welding - locostbuilders
£3.01 breather filter - ebay
£41.00 head gasket and head bolts - ebay
£5.00 water hoses - scrappie
Electrical and control -
£200.00 Megasquirt kit, stim and extra VB921s Bill Shurvington
£12.00 relays - halfords
£11.00 battery cable x 3 - premier wiring systems
£3.00 relay bases - premier wiring systems
£6.00 spade terminals - premier wiring systems
£5.00 missile switch - premier wiring systems
£3.95 fuse board - kitcar show
£4.50 Relay bases - kitcar show
£3.00 spade connectors - halfords
£135.00 Wideband lambda Innovate LC-1 - bill s
£16.00 boost control and fan control parts rs
£8.00 Spira wrap for loom - kitcar show
Inlet -
£161.02 inlet manifold - ebay
£15.00 fuel hose - demon tweaks
£6.00 vacuum hose - kitcar show
£3.00 vacuum hose tees - kitcar show
£102.00 chargecooler, rad and tank - ebay
£22.45 chargecooler pump and hoses - ebay
£9.40 amal valve (Escort Cosworth) - ebay
£15.00 dump valve - ebay
Transmission -
£17.50 Clutch release bearing CCT133 (capri) - Factors
£25.00 dohc starter (2.0 Sierra DOHC) - scrappy
£6.00 Flywheel bolts (FINIS 6952658) - ford
£10.00 spigot bearing FINIS code 1596468 - ebay
Tools, books and consumables
£16.50 turbo book - amazon
£15.00 instant gasket hylomar spray - demon tweaks
£6.29 fuel filter - demon tweaks
£17.00 magic aluminium solder - kitcar show
£13.00 blowtorch and gas - B&Q
£3.38 circlip pliers - ebay
£4.00 hylomar tube - hafords
£20.00 welding helmet - locostbuilders
£16.00 welding rods - halfords
£5.70 16mm drill bit - ebay
£10.00 grinder disks - fixings direct
£18.60 torque wrench - screwfix
£17.00 holesaws - B&Q
£169.00 Engine Hoist - Lenco
£1,835.05
Need
£15.00 turbo oil supply fitting - demon tweaks
£10.00 turbo oil return fitting - demon tweaks
£35.00 370cc injectors - ebay
£10.00 exhaust paint - cbs
£10.00 exhaust gasket material - ebay
£20.01 boost guage - ebay
£20.00 boost hose reducer - ebay
£40.00 boost hoses - ebay
£10.00 dump valve t piece - ebay
£13.00 jubilee clips - b&q
£15.00 air filter - ebay
£15.00 inlet hose - ebay
£10.00 alternator drive belt - halfords
£25.00 fuel pump - ebay
£248.01
Total will probably be about £2100.
Ouch. It better be quick...
Tom
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djtom
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| posted on 14/6/07 at 11:52 PM |
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So far...
Only about 100% over original budget and about 3 months behind programme. Bit like an episode of Grand Designs really.... good thing I'm a
project manager in real life - it must really inspire confidence in my abilities! Must actually write a PID and project plan for the next one…
After much sniping on ebay for the HUGE list of bits above (started off as a short list, but expanded massively as i realised that there were LOADS of
bits that I’d missed....) I started to fabricate bits.
Fabrication takes time. Lots of it, especially when you don't have a well equipped workshop. Still, the £10 angry grinder, £10 Black and Decker
drill and £45 arc welder have done a sterling job, but it has been a slow process.
Engine mounts (3 times now…) , turbo flange (inlet), turbo flange (outlet), exhaust manifold, exhaust downpipe, wastegate mount, wastegate downpipe,
lambda boss etc etc were made, test fitted, remade, tested again etc
Spare (dead) zetec was installed on the new engine mounts as a test mule for manifold fitment, plumbing, wiring etc whilst the good (? – never heard
running yet!) engine was put on the stand for a checkover and rebuild. Sump was dropped off and introduced to Mr Angry Grinder, baffles were
constructed and welded in (thanks Mark!) and a new base was welded on. Should give about 4” clearance.
Note to self – bolt manifold flanges to a spare head when constructing an exhaust manifold next time. It warped during welding and now I need it
refaced. Doh. Might just do it up tight and see what happens…
Can’t be arsed to write more now.
To be continued once I work out why the Megasquirt is refusing to connect to the laptop.
Some photos in my archive if anyone wants a look.
Tom
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 15/6/07 at 02:18 AM |
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Well if you replace some of the words like turbo with supercharger and Zetec with 4AGE then there are many parallels with my own forced induction
project!
Well done on your work so far and hopefully you'll have a fairly straight forward conversion now you've got most of the bits. Sometimes
the stess is worth the rewards at the end.
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Danozeman
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| posted on 15/6/07 at 06:06 AM |
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ouch!! i was thinking of doing something similar when mines finally on the road.
Dan
Built the purple peril!! Let the modifications begin!!
http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 15/6/07 at 06:43 AM |
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Thats one HELL of a shopping list  
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 15/6/07 at 07:21 AM |
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Sounds like a fun project! However:
quote:
Not sure how long it will last at 200-odd bhp with 200-odd lbft, but we’ll see ….:-)
You could have extracted that power from a 20XE for a lot less £££'s! Then again I guess you have the option for extracting more from the zetec
without much difficulty.
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graememk
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| posted on 15/6/07 at 08:33 AM |
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"quote"Cheap turbo from ebay. IHI TD04H – 15G From a 4.4litre Isuzu turbo diesel"
didn think you could use a diesel turbo on a petrol car ?
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emsfactory
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| posted on 15/6/07 at 09:34 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by graememk
"quote"Cheap turbo from ebay. IHI TD04H – 15G From a 4.4litre Isuzu turbo diesel"
didn think you could use a diesel turbo on a petrol car ?
I thought that too.
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martyn_16v
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| posted on 15/6/07 at 10:23 AM |
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me three, EGT's are much higher on a petrol engine 
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jambojeef
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| posted on 15/6/07 at 01:41 PM |
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It is the accepted truth that this is the case and according to some books Ive read you should never use a diesel turbo on a petrol car as the blades
arent made of tough enough stuff.....
However, I have a suspicion that the blades wouldnt be deliberately made of a different material just for diesel applications unless it was a big cost
saving.
Do, whats the worst that can happen...!
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SeaBass
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| posted on 15/6/07 at 01:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jambojeef
However, I have a suspicion that the blades wouldnt be deliberately made of a different material just for diesel applications unless it was a big cost
saving.
BUT a small saving times a million units = A big saving...
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garage19
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| posted on 15/6/07 at 02:49 PM |
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Yes, it is true about the material on Garrett turbos turbine wheels but i have friends that have used BIG holeset turbos off 8 litre diesel engine on
their petrol engines with no probs to date.
More worrying is the mis matching of cold and hot sides as diesel engines have different exaust gas delivery / air consumption needs.
One thing i noticed you have left off your shopping list is a fuel pressure regulator.
The stock mondeo one will not be designed to compensate for positive plenum pressure. Use a cheap sierra cosworth one from ebay. If you were to use
the stock ones you would need HUGE injectors to compensate for the effective pressure drop.
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oadamo
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| posted on 15/6/07 at 04:34 PM |
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why would you need a amal valve on this setup? the reason diesel turbos are cak is the compressor map it will be way off for this there designed for
low rpm. spining it up for high power will kill it in no time lol.
adam
[Edited on 15/6/07 by oadamo]
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mark chandler
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| posted on 15/6/07 at 06:57 PM |
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Jeezz I did not realise so much was involved, looks very comphensive and well thought out to me.
Regards Mark
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djtom
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| posted on 16/6/07 at 10:29 AM |
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There shouldn't be too much problem using the diesel turbo - I've got a copy of the compressor map and when I plotted the airflow
requirements it stays pretty efficient (near 70%) up to about 0.8 bar at 7000 rpm. As for the material it's made of - well, we'll have to
wait and see. It's done all the time by the BMW turbo boys who tend to use large Holset turbos from large diesels with no problems - I think the
trick is to pick a turbo from a diesel engine much larger than the petrol engine that you are putting it on - and check the compressor map before
starting!
As for it being an expensive way to liberate 200bhp / 200lb-ft, well it probably is (and wasn't meant to be!), but this will be with no
"standard" tuning at all, so if at a later date I decide to do some headwork, cams etc, then that will liberate even more. Should be a
relatively unstressed 200bhp.
As for the cost, I should be able to offset it to some extent by selling the complete x-flow setup with mounts, alternator, coil, exhaust etc, which I
hope should raise a fair amount of money.
Thanks for the interest by the way - always nice to know that others are interested in what I'm up to!
Tom
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roadboy
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| posted on 19/6/07 at 03:05 PM |
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I believe the problem with diesel turbos is the exhaust gas temperature is much higher with petrol engines causing overheating the exhaust side of the
turbo.
regds
Ian
Jude Performance Services
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 19/6/07 at 09:33 PM |
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I'm not a turbo expert but a lot the problems with EGTs were related to VATN (Variable Area Turbine Nozzel) turbos and using petrol. the VATN
mechanism wasn't robust enough to survive. I would suspect the more modern the turbo is the more likely it is the parts are shared between turbo
families. Especially as Porsche for example are now using VATN turbos on petrol engines.
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sebastiaan
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| posted on 20/6/07 at 04:36 PM |
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The Porsche turbo is a whole different beast then anything on the market today. I've seen some presentations on the new 911 turbo engine (from
here) and it's a wonderfull engine. The turbo's would be a tad expensive
though..... ;-)
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djtom
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| posted on 22/6/07 at 12:21 PM |
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Fuel pressure regulator now added. I was trying to work out how to use a Rover 620 turbo one i had knocking around, then realised that it would be far
easier to use the whole Rover fuel rail, injectors and FPR. Injector spacing is the same (within a mill or two, anyway).
The only problem is that the zetec fuel rail fits into the zetec manifold, and has the injectors inside that - the injectors themselves don't
fit into the manifold.
Easy solution - saw off the end 20mm of each injector pocket in the zetec rail, push onto the end of each rover injector as an adaptor (i.d. is the
same), then fit whole rover fuel rail with adaptors to zetec manifold and zetec fuel rail seals with some custom made bent bits of metal for
brackets.
Seems to work well in my highly scientific leak test - fit manifold to blank sheet of metal, apply mouth to TB and blow / suck hard. No leakage
detectable:-)
That was good.
What was bad:
Found the source of a mysterious knocking noise that has plagued me since buying the car (gearbox knocking against a redundant bracket in the
transmission tunnel), ground off said bracket, remaking engine mounts (stronger, more clearance and better centered), then found out that moving the
engine over has put the wastegate downpipe about 2mm from the chassis rail.
Ground it off, remade it with a kink in it to clear the rail (15mm clearance), tacked in place and discovered I'd cut it 2mm short. Remade it
again and ran out of welding rods.
Sometimes it feels like the project is going backwards.....
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djtom
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| posted on 4/7/07 at 10:41 PM |
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...but then again sometimes it takes a leap forwards.
Like tonight, for instance, when it made noise on its own for the first time. OK, it may not have been quite the right noise - turned over a few
times, nearly caught, got excited and prodded the throttle a bit. Loud bang and flash immediately ensues on closing the throttle, from inlet manifold
area.
I think there may have been fuel vapour in it that ignited from the "wasted" spark when the inlet valve was open. Or something. Ceased
testing at that point as it was 10pm and it was really quite a loud bang. Best not to upset the neighbours :-)
Still, it means it definately has sparks, air and fuel all meeting each other in the middle somewhere. Maybe not in the right order or at the right
time, but it's a start.
All in all - quite chuffed today!
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Simon
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| posted on 5/7/07 at 05:44 PM |
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dj,
You wanna talk to me about how quick a conversion can be done
SVA'd and on road for 3/1/06, off road on 15/10 for a 6 week twin turbo conversion.
NINE months later still not done.
My budget
Pair Audi S4 turbo £140
Two Ren 5GT intercoolers £10 (slightly modified
Stainless for new exhausts £200
Emerald (about £600) yet to buy!!!
Oil/water feeds/returns about £30
Fuel pump - approx £100
Just over a grand, though could save a lot going MS!
Mechanical side nearly done - hoping to finish this weekend, then finish making new bonnet etc etc
ATB
Simon
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djtom
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| posted on 16/7/07 at 10:54 AM |
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It runs!
Took a week or so of buggering about trying to find why it wouldn't run properly - checked the injectors, plugs, leads, fuel pump, fpr, hoses,
valves, cams, timing belt etc etc. Nothing doing – it was still running like a dog and spitting back through the intake.
I then checked all of my wiring again, as I had based the install on a Megasquirted BMW turbo install that I found a wiring diagram for. After doing
some reading, I thought I’d found it – the injectors were paired 1+2, 3+4, as I’d copied the BMW setup where 1, 2 and 3 were connected, as were 4, 5
and 6 (I guess due to the firing order of the inline 6?)
For a 4 cylinder they should be paired 1+4, 2+3. Brilliant. Rushed back to the garage, changed the wiring over, turned it over and….
Pop, bang, splutter, bugger it. That’s not it then. Checked the rest of the wiring, and remembered reading something about the polarity of the VR
sensor. I checked it and it looked ok, but as I’d run out of ideas I changed the wires around just to try it.
Took 30 seconds to do (plus the week wasted in trying everything else), and works a treat.
Spent the next half hour with a very childish grin on my face, annoying the neighbours (no exhaust silencer yet) and playing with the Megasquirt
trying to get it to idle properly. I need to wire up a IAC valve to get it to idle from cold without having to prod the throttle, but I think it’s
pretty good now.
Installed the chargecooler radiator in front of the water rad, drilled a hole in the water rad in a moment of sheer idiocy (don’t ask!), swore a bit
(ok - a lot), had a go at fixing the rad (JB Weld and pliers – it might work), plumbed the chargecooler water feeds (who needs Samco when you can use
garden hose…..) and made some radiator brackets to hold it all together.
Next step is to make a bracket for my new header tank, and then to try and refit the bonnet and nose over the very full engine bay! After that, I’ll
be double checking the Megasquirt settings and taking it out for a test drive at some point this week.
The general plan is to use Autotune in a fairly aggressive mode to tune the VE table MAP / RPM bins off boost at first, and then to extrapolate this
(adding a bit for safety) into the boost areas of the table (I’ll be running open loop above 100kPa). Then more test driving with a passenger watching
the AFR on the laptop and gradually working my way up the rev range and boost.
Does this sound sensible?
Simon, looks as though you’ve got a good conversion going on there. I’d love to take a look at some point if you’ve got any time – looks as though
you’re quite local to me. What power are you shooting for? Have you lowered the compression at all?
Updates will appear as they happen,
Tom
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Dale
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| posted on 16/7/07 at 01:33 PM |
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It is fairly common procedure here to use the turbo off the 6 cylinder dodge cummings (holset hy35 or so) to replace the original garrett t3 that came
on the ford 2.3. A bit more lag but pretty much 20+ lbs by 3500 rpm . Pretty sure its gettting a 5 or more lbs by 2500 if I recall. Pretty much
bullet proof turbo and cheap in comparison. The map on it lines up actually better than the garret t3 for the little 2.3.
Dale
Thanks
Dale
my 14 and11 year old boys 22
and 19 now want to drive but have to be 25 before insurance will allow. Finally on the road
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 16/7/07 at 07:13 PM |
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Crikey, I hate to say it, but that's a very average build for a lot of money...
Mind you, so seem to have included every last nut bolt and washer in the price, which has artificially pushed the costs up. Your wideband and engine
hoist purchases can be used for other purposes, so not necessarilly 100% pertinant for this conversion; you get to use them over which reduces the
bill by 300 quid.
Top marks for effort, that ehaust manifold is a little brutal to say the least
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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