djtom
|
| posted on 16/7/07 at 10:09 PM |
|
|
quote:
Crikey, I hate to say it, but that's a very average build for a lot of money...
In what way? I'm not taking offence, I'm just interested to know why you consider it average. It's an injected, turbo'd,
chargecooled 16v 220bhp / 220lbft lump with programmable management, closed loop wideband O2 and electronic mappable boost control. I'd call a
zetec running carbs and 2d ignition an "average" install, and this is a bit better specced!
Regarding cost, yes it's more than I wanted to spend. No it wasn't meant to be that way. However..... So far I've not sold any of
the bits I've taken out. So, after I've sold:
- a good xflow (Built by Vulcan, big valve head, overbored 60thou, A2 cam, lightened balanced flywheel, 1300 pistons, shortened baffled sump, toothed
belt kit, duplex timing chain, steel pulley, double valve springs, non-vac dizzy, lumenition leads, alloy rocker cover etc etc),
- a pair of matched dellorto 40's,
- inlet manifold,
- alternator,
- engine mounts,
- high power coil,
- starter,
- stainless 4-1 exhaust manifold and silencer,
- facet fuel pump,
and a few other bits, I reckon I'll be well on the way to seeing 8-900 quid coming back.
quote:
Mind you, so seem to have included every last nut bolt and washer in the price, which has artificially pushed the costs up.
Well, not really, as they all added to the cost! It's ALWAYS the little bits that add up and make up a big proportion of the cost if you work it
out properly. Yes, I've put all of the tools in there as well, which I can obviously reuse, ditto the wbO2 as you said, but I thought it would
be interesting to see what the true costs were, including all of the little purchases. Well, interesting and scary, anyway  Might not do that next
time!
I'll update when I've sold the other bits and give a true cost with the tools and anything reusable taken out - hopefully it will bring
the cost down a bit!
In all honesty, I think that it would have been cheaper to sell the car and buy another, better specced one. However, when it's done it will be
(almost) exactly how I want it to be, and it's been a whole lot of fun!
Tom
|
|
|
|
|
djtom
|
| posted on 16/7/07 at 10:18 PM |
|
|
quote:
that ehaust manifold is a little brutal to say the least
yep - if that breaks I'm going to be gutted! it weighs about the same as the cast iron mondeo manifold and it's made of scaff bar and 5mm
wall square section tube. Should do the job......
I've had to put a taper on it now to give it a bit more chassis clearance - I'll upload another photo soon - it looks a tiny bit less
industrial now!
Put the gutted R1 carbon can on tonight and welded up the pipe joins. Even with the baffles cut out of it, it makes quite a difference - it's
pretty quiet at idle now. Have to see how noisy it is when moving. Looks nice too... mmmm, carbon!
Tom
|
|
|
Fatboy Dave
|
| posted on 17/7/07 at 10:57 AM |
|
|
I mean a 'budget' engine in that it's a decompression plate special. I've built probably a dozen of these things, and the
cheapest I've managed so far is 400 quid. Admittedly, silicon hose and other niceties makes the cost ramp up, and that I have the benefit of
experiance, but for the ~1800 you've spent on your engine, I could have built a motor with forged rods and pistons.
As I said, only experiance can tell you what are the best parts to buy. I'm not taking anything away from the fact that you've got
yourself a good engine, all I'm saying that with judicious research, you could have spent a lot less.
I'll list my spec list later when I get home and what it cost me to give you some ideas for the future if you like? 
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
|
PLEASE NOTE: This user is a trader who has not signed up for the LocostBuilders registration scheme. If this post is advertising a commercial product or service, please report it by clicking here.
|
djtom
|
| posted on 17/7/07 at 01:11 PM |
|
|
I'd be interested to see your spec list and hear how someone else has approached the same project.
I've read around a fair bit, but most people are able to use the engine in a far more standard configuration, i.e. in a fwd tintop with a larger
engine bay and more clearance over the engine, in a car with an injection system alreay installed. This allows the use of a standard inlet manifold
and discounts the cost of a hp fuel pump, swirl pot, return lines, wiring, relays etc. A great deal of the cost was due to the fact that I was
changing the engine from an carbed xflow to an EFI zetec, not due to the fact that the zetec happens to have a turbo bolted to it!
Please do post your list of bits - I'm always looking for good ideas and cheaper ways to do things - although I'd like the next project to
involve a V8...... something to do with the noise I think.....
Cheers,
Tom
|
|
|
djtom
|
| posted on 31/8/07 at 03:46 PM |
|
|
Alrighty then, time for another update…
It works! Took a bit of buggering around with megasquirt settings (ended up changing to MSnS Extra Hi-Resolution code to sort out the idle problems
(running 470cc injectors means VERY small pulse widths at idle), but it goes like stink. Only running at 5-6psi boost so far, controlled by the
wastegate spring only (no electronic boost mapping), but it’s seriously quick. It comes on boost by about 3750rpm in second and pulls like a train to
the red line (7000 at the moment)
I had a couple of problems – had a sticky injector that was leaking fuel into the manifold all the time, leading to the oil becoming hugely diluted
and the bottom end started gently knocking shortly afterwards. Luckily I stopped the engine in time, stripped the sump off and got away with replacing
2 big end shells only – the crank was fine as I’d only driven it for a couple of miles. I guess the oil film had broken down on the bearings under
load as it was diluted. Seems fine now though with new shells, although I think that I’ll change the oil and filter again after another couple of
hundred miles just to clear out any remaining debris from the broken shell.
Mapping with Megatune and Megalogviewer is very easy – set a rough VE table, go for a drive logging the AFR and then run the analyser on the resulting
log file. It suggests a new VE table, you load that, and repeat. Seems to work well so far – the AFRs are now staying damn close to those set in the
target table.
The only thing that I’m not sure about at present is the ignition timing table, especially retarding the timing under boost. It’s a tricky balance –
retard too little and you get detonation and hole pistons, retard too much and your EGTs go through the roof and melt everything in sight. I’m not
sure how to tune this – there’s absolutely no chance of hearing detonation over the exhaust noise, wind roar and turbo whine, so I’ve erred on the
side of safety at present. Anyone got any ideas as to how much timing should retard under boost (degrees per psi would be nice) for a 8.5:1 CR Zetec??
I’m running 26 deg advance at present at 100kPa from 3500rpm upwards, retarding to 20 deg at 130 kPa, 14 deg at 160 kPa and 8deg at 200kPa (if I ever
boost it that high). From what I can see it should be about ok, but confirmation is always nice!
This weekend I’ll start to play with the electronic boost control and experiment with winding the boost up to 8-10psi. I might also have a go at using
the amal valve to hold the wastegate shut until it hits the boost target in an attempt to get it to build boost faster (it avoids wastegate creep),
although this could make it a bit feisty to drive if it builds boost much faster than it does already! It’s a bit of a kick in the arse at 4k rpm at
the moment as the turbo spools up already. Still, worth experimenting.
All in all I’m pretty happy. It’s bloody quick (with much more to give), sounds like a jet fighter spooling up when it comes on boost (although the
Max Power dump valve is getting on my t*ts a bit!), and still looks pretty tatty so that people underestimate it all the time.
On the “to-do” list:
• Wind up the boost (self imposed 12psi max – honest!)
• Tidy up the wiring a bit
• Sort out the accel enrichments (to avoid bogging) and overrun fuel cut (so it’s not so thirsty)
• Sell the old engine and parts to recoup some money
• Try to stop being paranoid about the new noises / smells / vibrations it now makes (they all sound / smell / feel expensive!)
• Replace the side panel next to the turbo with an aluminium vent so that underbonnet temperatures are lowered a bit and the turbo stops trying to
melt the fibreglass (smells horribly sweet)
• Hope it stops raining, book a trackday and enjoy it!
All good 
|
|
|
Simon
|
| posted on 31/8/07 at 08:23 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by djtom
It runs!
............. I’d love to take a look at some point if you’ve got any time – looks as though you’re quite local to me. What power are you shooting
for? Have you lowered the compression at all?
Tom
Tom,
Sorry, only just spotted this Yeah any time you wanna come over, give us a shout - U2U me and I'll send you my tel no.
I still seem to be someway away from finishing - I keep finding jobs to do (bodywork - you'll see why when you come over).
Mechanical jobs only minor - fuel pipe/pump and reg. Was going to order Emerald last week, but had another financial miscalculation so that's
been put off for a week or two. Also decided I'm going to get coil packs for ignition. Big job will be remaking the bonnet/nose combo, but even
that shouldn't take more than a week or two. Should it?
Me hoping for between 250 - 300bhp. Happy with lower fig, stupid grin time with upper Standard comp ratio
Anyway, I think what you've done should be applauded, and perhaps when you come over, you could bring yours
And take me out in it
btw, I'm in Paddock Wood
ATB
Simon
|
|
|
Antnicuk
|
| posted on 3/12/07 at 10:17 PM |
|
|
excellent project, thats my kind of modification.
Is there an update?
You manifold certainly looks like it will do the trick, if in the future you manage to make a tubular manifold with runners that met at the turbo you
will have a fair bit less lag.
600 BHP per ton, Stylus Brought back from the dead! Turbo Rotary Powered!
|
|
|
Volvorsport
|
| posted on 3/12/07 at 11:21 PM |
|
|
hmm using schedule 40 weldable pipe fittings makes the job look better , the log on that manifold is huge .
i think even if you had short runners youd pick up power and torque .
still at least youve done it . i wouldnt think £2k is too expensive with the ecu and everything involved.
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
|
|
|
jeffw
|
| posted on 5/12/07 at 10:28 AM |
|
|
Simon
Just noticed your in Paddock Wood...so am I !
I have an Audi S4 with K04s on it running 420 BHP...Your K03s are good for around 330BHP max on the 2.7 V6 Audi engine in the S4, not sure which
engine your planning on using the K03s on. I also have a Zetec engined Phoenix which I'm about to put GSXR1000 TBs on.
We should get together and compare notes ...
Not a complete thread hijack as I think the turbo Zetec write-up is very informative
Jeff
|
|
|
|
