DIY Si
|
 posted on 17/9/07 at 12:48 AM |
|
|
1.9 Mi16 supercharger
Right, due to a few financial issues, most of my toys have to go on hold for a while.  This does mean I can keep my nice 205 GTi. However, since
it'll have to replace the Indy Bird I need it to have a little more pace. It was measured at 170 BHP on Emerald rollers. but I feel a little
extra could be extracted. I'm looking at pulling the engine to give it a bit of a refresh (new rings etc) and was wondering what could be done
to aid the later installation of a blower? I don't know this engine very well, so don't know just how much the standard rods/crank/head
etc will allow on stock parts.
Any ideas or suggestions gentle(wo)men?
PS, anyone know what a safe redline should be for this engine?
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
|
|
|
|
|
damien
|
| posted on 17/9/07 at 02:32 AM |
|
|
bin the mi16 and get a low mileage gti6 lump and supercharge that, have a read on the gti6 forum -
http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=69404&page=1
Topaz gti6-tb 205 Gti (ph1.5)
Sigma 2.0 8v 306 XSI (ph1)
Provence 1.9 8v dturbo (ph2)
|
|
|
nick205
|
| posted on 17/9/07 at 08:44 AM |
|
|
Have a read through the Puma Racing website for excellent general tuning info and this
Pug Mi16 Engine article for specifics (doesn't cover supercharging though).
|
|
|
Hellfire
|
| posted on 17/9/07 at 08:57 AM |
|
|
A few guys in the South Yorkshire Pug GTI Club turbocharged the standard engine with success. Trouble was you couldn't put the power down
effectively....
One guy from Kippax had a beaut Red 1.9 which he lowered (very tastfully) had a Sebring exhaust... went over a slight hump in the road, may have been
a Hump Bridge and cracked both the sills in half. Gorgeous cars, if a little thin!!
The Mi16 was always considered one of the poorer designed engines (well - head)... sorry
Steve
|
|
|
DIY Si
|
| posted on 17/9/07 at 09:17 AM |
|
|
Thanks for those links gents, I'll get reading
Steve, why do you say the Mi16 head is a bit poo? Most of what I've read says the exact opposite.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
|
|
|
DIY Si
|
| posted on 17/9/07 at 09:49 AM |
|
|
Right, I've read through most of that supercharger thread, and it looks quite good, but more money than I want to spend. Since I already have an
emerald and Jenveys on mine and I'd like to keep them if at all possible, does anyone know of something that would do the job?
Also, why bin the MI16 and get the GTi6? Is it better able to handle the boost, or just a better engine somehow?
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
|
|
|
nick205
|
| posted on 17/9/07 at 10:52 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by DIY Si
Right, I've read through most of that supercharger thread, and it looks quite good, but more money than I want to spend. Since I already have an
emerald and Jenveys on mine and I'd like to keep them if at all possible, does anyone know of something that would do the job?
Also, why bin the MI16 and get the GTi6? Is it better able to handle the boost, or just a better engine somehow?
The Mi16 does have somewhat of a rep for being fragile and problems (on track) with oil surge/starvation. But in reality this is when tuning to very
high levels and using it very hard. If you look at other manufacturers engines of the same era, VX XE, Ford Cosworth etc, they all use cast iron
blocks which make them heavier, but stronger compared to the all alloy Pug units (8v and 16v). The GTI6 engine is (IIRC) cast iron block with an
alloy head, so is probably capable of a bit more abuse and the higher pressures asociated with forced induction.
Personally I'd stick with the Mi16 and develop it further....so I would have thought your next step would be to get some porting/flow work done
on the head, new cams (with vernier wheels) and a good rolling road session to get the best from it.
Might also be worth looking at things the other way and identifying areas where weight could be saved. Ditch the spare wheel and get breakdown cover,
lose some interior, perspex window kit, cardon fibre bonnet, no stereo, tyres, wheels...etc.
[Edited on 17/9/07 by nick205]
|
|
|
Hellfire
|
| posted on 17/9/07 at 01:17 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by DIY Si
Thanks for those links gents, I'll get reading
Steve, why do you say the Mi16 head is a bit poo? Most of what I've read says the exact opposite.
My recollection and statement is of when the first Pug 16V engines came out in 1989'ish, they may have improved with time/age but at the time
they had lots of what were termed as 'little niggles'... not from my own experience as I had a standard 1.9 205.
Steve
|
|
|
DarrenW
|
| posted on 17/9/07 at 01:28 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by nick205
Might also be worth looking at things the other way and identifying areas where weight could be saved. Ditch the spare wheel and get breakdown cover,
lose some interior, perspex window kit, cardon fibre bonnet, no stereo, tyres, wheels...etc.
[Edited on 17/9/07 by nick205]
Sounds like a move to make it more like the Indy bird Remove roof, wings, fit cycle wings,...
A mate of mine had an Mi16. It was quite a tool. I seem to remember it was quite a bit over 170bhp but not sure what he had done. It had a whole new
uprated rear axle (Viper??). He may have also had the gearbox rebuilt with new ratio's. He was CAD contracting (well still is but earning more
at Daimler Chrysler) at the time and earning a load of cash and spent 000's on it. The sickening part was he went to America, left the car
behind. His brother didnt look after it and i think it got sold for peanuts (less than a grand iirc). 'twas a sad day.
As much as i like the Pugs i dont think i could keep one in preference to a se7en unless i could only have one car and needed a roof.
|
|
|
DIY Si
|
| posted on 17/9/07 at 04:37 PM |
|
|
If I had a free choice, I'd keep the Indy, but it's a right sod to drive in the wet and I do occasionally need to take the wife places, so
I need a roof and a seat she fits in!  Sounds like tuning the engine to a higher NA state may be an easier step for now as it's standard
internally, and I was planing on shedding a bit of weight where possible. My cars don't have stereos and so on, as I'd rather hear the
engine sing. It already has most of the go faster bits, but I do want a bit more, and I may even sell the NOS kit to help fund a new head/cams.
Anyone have any experience with cammed Mi16's? Any that are a good usable cam, or any to avoid? Low end powers not too important, and I like a
nice revvy set up, if that helps!
[Edited on 17/9/07 by DIY Si]
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
|
|
|
clockwork
|
| posted on 17/9/07 at 05:19 PM |
|
|
Damien: That is a bargain for that kit 
I have looked into rotrex gear before... seriously flabbergasted at that price.
Edit; No proof....though might be fun to try it.
[Edited on 17/9/07 by clockwork]
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin.
"Well if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" Morons the world over.
Locost/Kit builders info and FAQ website:- www.carbuilders.info
|
|
|
soggy 3
|
| posted on 17/9/07 at 08:11 PM |
|
|
Hi si,if you have a look in the yellow pages there is a place in brackley that specialises in pug i think called pug one off,
they just had one of their cars a 306 featured in practical performance cars the rolling road work was also done at emerald,its running TWO V6,s!!.
They also had a turboed 205 featured in max power recently, they might be worth giving them a ring.
|
|
|
DIY Si
|
| posted on 17/9/07 at 08:20 PM |
|
|
Cheers for that, I wasn't aware of anyone round here who specialised is pugs. I'll have a look and see what I can find.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
|
|
|
damien
|
| posted on 18/9/07 at 02:24 AM |
|
|
dont know too much about the mi16 lump as ive been with the gti6 for 4 years.
from what i can make out the mi16 isnt great when pushed, it suffers from oil starvation but the gti6 dont, also the heads are better flowed on the
gti6. from what ive read the mi16 engine responds better to breather and head mods (unlike the gti6) but the mi16 is starting to get abit old now.
i did read that the s16 lump would be better for boost as it runs a lower comprestion and it is similer to the T16 block (as in the 405 T16).
my gti6 engine is running gsxr throttle bodies, kent cams, hi-flow head, forged pistons and rods, ARP bolts, solid lifters, Lightened Flywheel
lightened crank and kms management(limiter on 8k), last time she was on the rollers she made 223bhp @ 7620rpm, you do they same line of mods to a mi16
and you should see more power.
the chap with the supercharger kit has been running for over 6 months now with afew trackdays with just over 400bhp, to have the same type of setup as
him your looking at close to 10k.
Topaz gti6-tb 205 Gti (ph1.5)
Sigma 2.0 8v 306 XSI (ph1)
Provence 1.9 8v dturbo (ph2)
|
|
|
MikeRJ
|
| posted on 18/9/07 at 08:53 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by damien
dont know too much about the mi16 lump as ive been with the gti6 for 4 years.
from what i can make out the mi16 isnt great when pushed, it suffers from oil starvation
This is usualy only a problem on a track with sticky tyres. My friends tarmac rally car was ok until he moved to slicks, then went through several
engines with various baffles etc in the sump before going for a dry sump. His Mi16 engine is now producing 268bhp on Emeralds rollers and revs to
8.5k on the stock crank. The block flex is limiting power however, so he's considering using an iron block, though the weight penalty is around
25kg IIRC.
|
|
|
DIY Si
|
| posted on 18/9/07 at 05:59 PM |
|
|
Looks like a better head and cam s is the way forward then. I'm looking for some extra power, but as ever, don't want to spend too much.
Definitely can't afford 10K for the full blower set up! About a grand I could do, but not a lot more at the moment.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
|
|
|
