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Author: Subject: Duratec Questions
Furyous

posted on 2/1/12 at 03:10 PM Reply With Quote
Duratec Questions

I've got a few questions before I splash out on some things.

What are the downsides to not being able to space out later GSXR throttle bodies? I'm having trouble sourcing 2001-03 but there are plenty of later ones available. I'm probably going to angle the pipes on the flange down a bit to clear the bonnet with the 10* lean from the gearbox.

Would I be able to use a standard Mondeo fuel rail/regulator and injectors?

What fuel pump should I use, and where from?


I currently have carburettors on a Crossflow with a mechanical fuel pump, and one fuel line coming from the side of the tank. I need to have a return fuel line and I've been told I can just route it into the fuel filler hose. I'm not especially keen on having a fuel line exposed in the "boot" of the car in order to get above the filler neck of the tank. Aside from a new fuel tank, any ideas for the return? I might need to get photos of the current fuel line.

I've also been told a swirl pot isn't entirely necessary if I keep the tank topped up. So... would I need a fuel line from the tank, going to a pump at the front, going to the fuel rail, out of the regulator and directly back to the fuel tank?

Gaskets:
Inlet manifold to head. What do I do for a gasket for the flange plate from Fastdan? How about a home made paper gasket?
Gearbox to engine. Do I need one there?
EGR blanking plate. Would this be the same sort of silicone sealer as the sump?
Anything for the cam cover?


What do I use for the water outlet at the back of the engine? I know people use standard pipes to take water to the radiator instead of using those £200 purpose built pipes. But what do I use to actually attach it to the engine?




I'll admit to not knowing a lot about these things, but I've learned a huge amount in researching this engine swap. So if something sounds simplistic and obvious, try not to cringe too much. It's the smaller, fiddly things I'm trying to work out now.

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Dusty

posted on 2/1/12 at 03:22 PM Reply With Quote
Add a low pressure lifter pump and swirl pot or get a new tank. Even a half full fuel tank will give surge problems on a track day so unless you want to take two five gallon jerry cans with you to a track day and top up hourly.
I did a lot of my cooling plumbing with 28mm copper pipe and fittings from B&Q. Then it's just silicon or standard bits from the original 'rubber' for connectors. Lasted 5 years so far on my zetec.

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big-vee-twin

posted on 2/1/12 at 03:45 PM Reply With Quote
I have used a tank with built in swirl pot/sump with a Bosch High pressure pump and a fuel return line to the tank from the fuel rail.

I have a Fastdan manifold and plan to use a silicon gasket same as on sump. You may need his engine mounts too.

Cam cover has a rubber o ring type seal fitted into a groove so re-usable.

No gasket between engine and bell housing.

If you buy an ST150 engine the EGR will already be blanked off, but use some form of exhaust gasket material.

Use standard water outlet, some 32mm aluminium pipe and silicon see my archive pics for details.

You will also need a lowered sump, a ST150 flywheel, a HD Pinto friction plate an uprated RS Turbo pressure plate or early Zetec, SAAB thrust Bearing, Duratec to type 9 bell housing (assuming type 9).

Duratec fuel rail has a Shock absorber fitted to smooth out pulses from pump, it is not a fuel regulator.

I guess you will need exhaust manifold too, or mod your old one.

Why is you engine leaning 10 degrees are you planning on using a Mazda set up?





Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016

http://www.triangleltd.com

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ajw

posted on 2/1/12 at 03:53 PM Reply With Quote
swirl pot/duratec

definitely put a swirl pot . I have it mounted on top of tank which means both pumps (high and low pressure) in the rear of car .Use braided fuel line in the tunnell and clip well. Use a proper exhaust metel type gasket and a water manifold ( see retro-ford , dave college ).
The duratec a very easy engine to tune, 2 litre up to 275 bhp

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Furyous

posted on 2/1/12 at 04:03 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by big-vee-twin...

You will also need a lowered sump, a ST150 flywheel, a HD Pinto friction plate an uprated RS Turbo pressure plate or early Zetec, SAAB thrust Bearing, Duratec to type 9 bell housing (assuming type 9).

...

I guess you will need exhaust manifold too, or mod your old one.

Why is you engine leaning 10 degrees are you planning on using a Mazda set up?


Bits I have:

Mondeo engine.
MX5 N7 box
MX5 flywheel, clutch, starter
Fastdan inlet manifold and mount plates
21x15mm spigot bearing
Possibly the alternator from my Crossflow


Bits I do not have:
Water take off to go on the back of the engine.

Fuel rail and injectors.

Mechanical thermostat.

I'll trial fit the engine before spending £400 on a Raceline angled and shortened sump. I don't want to buy it before finding out the gearbox won't fit and going back to the Type 9.

Throttle bodies.

ECU - I'll wait until the end before buying one. Probably go for Microsquirt 2 or possibly Omex.

Exhaust - Again, I'll leave it until near the end. There are kits on ebay to weld up, or I could modify a Pinto exhaust.

New prop.

Lots of other things.




I'm hoping to get as much as possible done before the start of February, although I doubt I'll be anywhere near finished. I'll be happy to have the engine in place by then.

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big-vee-twin

posted on 2/1/12 at 04:47 PM Reply With Quote
Water outlet on Ebay Ford Mondeo MK3 Water Bypass Unit 1.8 2.0 Duratec | eBay


I've used GXSR 750 throttle bodies and built a MS2 Extra V3 ECU, just completing the wiring up







Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016

http://www.triangleltd.com

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ajw

posted on 2/1/12 at 06:09 PM Reply With Quote
consider raceline dry sump system ,expensive but for track use perfect. I have their exhaust manifold and silancer ,superbly built.
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pjay

posted on 2/1/12 at 06:52 PM Reply With Quote
quote:

What are the downsides to not being able to space out later GSXR throttle bodies? I'm having trouble sourcing 2001-03 but there are plenty of later ones available. I'm probably going to angle the pipes on the flange down a bit to clear the bonnet with the 10* lean from the gearbox.



Simple answer is you'd need a custom manifold - worth checking options with someone like FASTdan/Boggs Brothers.

Alternatively you could import from the US (I did this and it cost about £25 on top of the normal - not sure what it would be now):

2001 GSXR1000 GSXR 1000 THROTTLE BODIES AND INJECTORS | eBay

2000 00 SUZUKI GSXR750 GSX R 750 THROTTLE BODY #B29 | eBay

quote:

What fuel pump should I use, and where from?



Try Matt Lewis Racing down Guildford direction - good for filter, injection hose and other fittings etc:

SYTEC IN LINE HIGH PRESSURE FUEL INJECTION PUMP 250BHP | eBay

quote:

Gaskets:
Inlet manifold to head. What do I do for a gasket for the flange plate from Fastdan? How about a home made paper gasket?



Thick gasket paper as recommended by FASTdan himself. Again check eBay.

quote:

EGR blanking plate. Would this be the same sort of silicone sealer as the sump?



No there's a metal gasket - check with Ford or buy a head set since you'll need the exhaust and water distribution manifold ones (EGR is top right second down):

eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace
FORD 2.0L 2.3L DURATEC HEAD GASKET SET

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Furyous

posted on 4/1/12 at 02:52 PM Reply With Quote
Is 1mm mild steel ok for an egr blanking plate? I've made one up but I don't know if it would melt or anything with being so thin. I might Hammerite it later on.

I took the oil breather valve off with the intention of drilling it out but I noticed when I put the drill bit in that the spring is very light. Should I still drill it?

I've got the engine mount plates and some box section but I hadn't thought of the other end. If I use flat plate, would I just stick a bolt through a hole and a rubber mount into the chassis? Are engine mounts just rubber cotton reels?

Judging by eye, I think the current fuel line might be 4mm ID (about 6mm OD, assuming 1mm tube wall). The copper pipe is screwed directly into the side of the tank and goes straight to the front of the engine. I might need to take the tank out and replace the pipe going inside with a bigger one. If I do that, I might be able to sort something out for a return line but I'm worried about doing things to the tank when I don't know what I'm doing. My main concern is attaching and sealing things on without welding.

My new plan for the fuel line (v.0.03.4 ) is a low pressure pump near the tank, probably bolted to the wall behind the seats, then a line to a swirl pot in the engine bay, then on to the high pressure pump. I'm thinking it might be a good idea to keep the high pressure pipes as short as possible. What about having the swirl pot in the back and the HP pump at the front? That way the swirl pot won't heat up so much.




I trial fitted the MX5 gearbox to see what the lean is like. 10* is nothing! For some reason I had visions of it being so far over that it would take up extra space. It almost makes the cam cover level, with the different heights on each side. I might not need to put the inlet manifold pipes at an angle because the inlet ports are lower than I thought and the angle isn't so bad. I'll see what it's like when the engine is in.

I bit the bullet and spent a little more than I wanted to on some K1 GSXR1000 throttle bodies. I might get some cheaper but I'd have to wait a while to find them. I've saved money on other parts, so I can sort of justify it. Given that there could be more space, I might go for pjay's idea of screwing the bodies directly to the flange.

I've been waiting for some con rod bolts from Burton Power since before Christmas but they conveniently went out of stock after I ordered them. Apparently they should be in stock this week, but it's been holding up everything else. I don't have an engine stand so I'd rather only tip it over one time and before I bolt everything else on.

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