How miuch oil is left in a carbed R1 when the low oil lamp comes on? I have the standard R1 low oil level sensor in the sump.
If the light comes on, does that mean "stop and fill it up 'cos if you lose more then the pump will run dry" or does it mean "stop
now because the pump is running dry"? I'd hope it was the first so that you get some warning before you knacker the engine.
if the lights on the oil is gone
lol
the thing is what oil are you useing as when i give my thunderace yzf1000r a kicking it was coming on and when i spoke to the dealer i was told it was
not to take fully Synthetic as it would bugger my engine ,so i use SEMI SYNTHETIC and never had the light on since and i do give the bike a bit of a
kicking lol.
The oil level sensor is fairly high in the sump so not all the oil is gone. From memory, the oil pickup up seemed to be below the oil level sensor. Does anyone have any quoted figures?
quote:
Originally posted by thunderace
the thing is what oil are you useing as when i give my thunderace yzf1000r a kicking it was coming on and when i spoke to the dealer i was told it was not to take fully Synthetic as it would bugger my engine ,
My NTV runs happily on semi synth valvoline same as I use in my car. The bike shops round here also use the same oil delivered in bulk from the same supplier with no problems at all. I've asked them what the difference is between the car and bike oil and they say about £14. I have heard people say car oil is unsuitable because it contains friction inhibitors and ruins bike clutches, I thought oil was supposed to inhibit friction as that's why you put it in engines. Please explain in layman's terms with no friction inhibitor b*llocks why the oil is unsuitable.
Car oil and bike oil have different forumations / ratings, because they are designed for different things. The fundamental difference between the
majority of bike engines and a car engine is that the bike engine has a wet clutch, ie the clutch sits in the oil whereas with a car the clutch is dry
and away from the oil.
Oils that aren't rated for use with wet clutches (ie most car oils) have additional anti friction agents in them that can contaminate the
friction plates of a wet clutch and cause it to slip. Oils that are suitable for bikes (SG Rated) don't use any of these anti friction agents
that affect wet clutches.
It may be that certain car oils are also SG rated anyway, and/or the particular oil doesn't adversely affect the clutch on your partiular bike,
but for anyone to say that the only difference is "about £14" is showing them to be severely lacking in knowledge on the subject IMHO, so
not someone I would trust to give advice on such things.
Chris
fully synthetic oils are not allways best for every engine, suzuki and triumph allways told us to use what oil the manual said or the equivalent.
you could allways tell an engine that had been run on fully synth oil because the after 20,000 miles the top of the cylinder head was still spotless.
OK... I have a question.
If its the friction inhibitors that can cause problems with a wet clutches,
Why can you buy bike specific Slick 50?
quote:
Can I use car engine oil in my motorbike then?
No you can't.
Well, actually you can in some cases. The real answer to this question lies in the type of motorbike you own. If you own a bike with a wet clutch (ie. where the clutch sits partially submerged in the sump oil) and you dump car oil into it, all sorts of nasty things happen. Oils formulated for car engines have friction-modifiers in them. When the engine oil gets into the clutch, the friction-modifiers get to work and you'll end up with a clutch that won't bite. Bike oils generally don't have friction-modifiers, so they don't have this problem. If you're not sure, check for a JASO MA spec on the bottle. If you see that on the label, then it means the oil has been tested and confirmed to work with a wet clutch.
The other side of this coin is if you have a dry clutch bike, like some BMWs. In this case, the clutch is configured similar to a car in that it's never in contact with the engine oil, and if that's the case, then regular car engine oil should provide all the protection and lubrication you need for your bike.
Aha! intersesting link about additives.
I use Slick 50 as chain lube on my bikes, I may even reconsider that use now.
Thanks
the chain lube is fine
Nice discussion. I use "bike oil" because to hell with the cost, it is cheaper than a new engine.
I have a small oil leak on the timing chain cover which I will fix when I do my first service in about 700 miles time, which is soon at the rate I go.
In the mean time, and before I change my oil. How much is left when the sensor first switches?
It depends where the sensor switches, if it switches when the float sensor first detects a drop in oil (ie similar to your fuel gauge moving from
"full" ), then it will be far higher than if it waits for the sensor float to get to the bottom of its travel before triggering. Either way
though its significantly below the sight glass so I certainly would not rely on it to tell me when it needed topping up.
[Edited on 6/8/06 by ChrisGamlin]
I can't answer your question, but the manual does state that the light may flicker on under hard acceleration due to surge and not to worry about
it.
Mine comes on occasionally when the weather and the motor are cold as the oil takes longer to trickle past the baffle plate. As soon as it comes on I
obviously stop, but the level has always been in the sight glass, even with the light still on. I then switch off the motor for a couple of minutes
until the light goes out and then fire up and allow to tick over for a few minutes.
This has never actually caused me any problems. I would obviously top up now and carry a litre of spare oil. Yamaha's are built quite loosely and
so do burn a wee bit of oil..... 
my oil light has come on occasionally, under hard acceleration when going up hill. I back off and slow down and the light goes out. I keep oil in
the boot and top it up. I top up regularly anyway but sometimes it seems not often enough.
The problem is that my sight gauge is opaque and so I have no idea how much oil is in there.
Get a new sight glass fitted. For something this critical, you need to know you have sufficient oil.
Phil
Agreed, don't go guessing on something so critical.
Are you sure its not just grimy covered with dust / oil etc, and will wipe off? Mine always gets a bit grimy and needs a rag wipe before viewing it,
and the position of it means I need to use a torch (and ideally a mirror) to get a decent view of it.
quote:
Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
..and the position of it means I need to use a torch (and ideally a mirror) to get a decent view of it.
always check the oil before you go out. I have removed the oil level sensor in order to fit my sump baffle plate. now i know there is no light to come
on to tell me i have no oil in the engine i make sure i check it every time i take it out.
I check it before i start the engine and then once the engine has been running for a minute or so. If i can see any space above the oil level there is
not enough in.
Is replacing the glass an easy job? I don't want to lift out the engine and I don't have a car lift. I have wiped and cleaned the sight but all I can see is the reflection of the torch in a red plastic circle. I never though about it before but I suppose that it could be because the oil level was above the window.
the other big difference is the bike uses the same oil for the gearbox so the oil will be subject to alot more shearing than an car engine.
there have been a few articles in the bike mags about various oils and atleast one included several lab test to measure the both new and simulated
used oils. in every test the fully synthetics one with the bike specific ones offering roughly the same as the car oils when new but they lasted far
better whereas the car oils were mostly junk by the equivalent of 2000miles.
Good info cossey..
I always try to use castrol r4 superbike full synth anyway, expensive but superb..
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0310_oil/
the important part is the taper roller shear test.
quote:
As expected, the petroleum-based oils such as BelRay EXL, both Valvoline oils and the Yamalube and Torco synthetic blends are on the low end of the scale. Proving how good some synthetic blends are, top blend performer Castrol GPS actually out-performs one of the full synthetic oils (BelRay EXS). In general, however, the full synthetic oils are the winners here, with an average value of 93 percent, compared to the synthetic blends at 89 percent and the dinosaur oils at 86 percent.
quote:
Originally posted by smart51
Is replacing the glass an easy job? I don't want to lift out the engine and I don't have a car lift. I have wiped and cleaned the sight but all I can see is the reflection of the torch in a red plastic circle. I never though about it before but I suppose that it could be because the oil level was above the window.
I decided to do the oil change early just to make sure things are OK. Here is some empirical data.
I drained 2.5 litres of oil out of a [slightly] warm engine. Haynes says that 2.7 litres should be put in when not changing the oil filter. Not too
bad.
The oil lamp went out after 1.7 litres of clean oil had been put it. Many seconds later actually. whether this is time for the oil to find its way
into the sump or a bit of filtering on the electronics, I don't know.
when the lamp has flashed on in the past, 0.5 litres has stopped it coming on again.
Conclusion, If the oil warning light comes on
for a few seconds but goes off again, you need another litre of oil.
The sight gauge looks the same when full, empty, part full with the car level or tipped backwards. Maybe when open, on the bike, it can be seen
clearly but at the bottom of my engine bay, lit by a torch, all I can see it the reflection of the torch. Haynes says 2.7 litres and I put in 2.9
Should be OK for a bit.
It shouldnt really look the same, on mine when the glass is clean you can clearly see a little star shaped shroud thats behind the glass when
there's no oil in it even without a torch on it, but with oil in there you can only still see it if the oil is completely fresh.
It gets a bit tricky once the oil is in there as you need to convince yourself that you're looking at oil and not fresh air, hence why I never
top it up over the sight glass, always have it just below the top when the engine is idling.
I'll second what Chris says - you should be able to see a star-shape in the back of the window. Don't point your torch straight at it though
as you may not see it then.
But regarding the lamp - I've NEVER needed to put a litre of oil in to get the level where it should be (top of the sight glass at tickover)
after the lamp has come on. Maybe 250ml or so, but that's been it! When I've checked it (running) the level has been in the lower half of
the sight glass with the light on.
2.9l sounds somewhere near though....