When I get round to buying an R1 engine for my car, what's the best - carbs or injection?

All opinions greatly received!

Steve

Horses for courses really, there are benefits to both.

Carb'd engines have the benefit of being a bit cheaper to buy and cheaper to set up with just a re-jet required to run reasonably well.

the 2002/3 FI engines have the benefit of being newer so generally lower mileage etc, EFI usually also starts / idles better and if you have a Power Commander you have much better control over fuelling (and ignition with a PC3R Power Commander), although need a map. The EFI engine also has a better mid range than the carbed engine although top end there's nothing much in it.

Exhausts are interchangable and engine mounts are virtually the same, but the EFI engine has a deeper sump so will often sit too low if mounted in carb engine mounts.

As for the later EFI engines, they are totally different, significantly more powerful but rather peaky and not that well proven in BECs yet.

2 nil to the carbs so far then! Cheap and easier to set up - sounds like my sort of thing!

Cheers!

Don't ignore the better mid range.

I have a 98 carbed R1. It is very fast above 5000 RPM. 3000 - 5000 is OK for cruising but doesn't have much pull and can sound strained going up hill or with your foot down in high gear. Below 3000? Forget it except in 1st. Remember that the top end is as good or slightly better on a FI engine.

2004 engines and onwards have an extra 2000 revs and this is where all the extra power is. From the torque curves I have seen, they have less low range pull than the earlier engines and 1st gear is taller. The higher red line means you'll need more silencing for SVA and track days. That said, I regularly get to 12000 RPM and wish I had a few more

P.S. I got a carbed engine because it was really cheap!

[Edited on 30-8-2006 by smart51]

I didnt say easier to set up, I said cheaper to set up!

If you have a Powercommander on an EFI engine you can load up a base map and make changes yourself to individual parts of the map to get it through SVA etc, obviously you can't do this with carbs so easily or so accurately.

[Edited on 30/8/06 by ChrisGamlin]

Still...

Cheaper!

I'd been working on the principle of having the basics of the easy stuff to replace (calipers, uprights etc.), but getting the best I can afford for the big stuff (chassis, engine etc.). I guess it comes down to what I can get for my money at the time.

Steve

I think you need a trip out in my car Steve....

As long as you're more sensible than Jacko! Never been that fast down that particular road before he took me for a quick spin in his 7 (not so fast at the moment though!).

Then he let me drive it, and I spent most of the time stalled in the middle of the A19 trying to pull out of my estate (something about trying to pull away in second gear or something?)

Getting off the line in 2nd is easy, if you have one of the bigger engines! Not sure with an R1 as I've never driven one. I'm forever forgetting which gear I'm in and haven't stalled mine in weeks!

Mine is OK pulling away in 2nd if you forget to change into 1st before pulling away, you can even pull away in 1st without having to touch the throttle at all (diesel style) although I suspect that trick would be a bit trickier on carbs, and possibly a bit trickier without the Barnett clutch conversion which is meant to give a slightly more linear pedal (although never tried a standard one).

quote:

---

Originally posted by StevieB
As long as you're more sensible than Jacko! Never been that fast down that particular road before he took me for a quick spin in his 7 (not so fast at the moment though!).

Then he let me drive it, and I spent most of the time stalled in the middle of the A19 trying to pull out of my estate (something about trying to pull away in second gear or something?)

---

The pulling away in second gear was an unintentional thing - the gearbox was the other way around to my Roadster, so when I assumed I'd put it into 1st from neutral, I'd pushed it the other way.

No wonder I thought it was strange when Mark said to pull away with just the tickover revs, just to end up stalling every time.

quote:

---

Originally posted by StevieB
The pulling away in second gear was an unintentional thing - the gearbox was the other way around to my Roadster, so when I assumed I'd put it into 1st from neutral, I'd pushed it the other way.

No wonder I thought it was strange when Mark said to pull away with just the tickover revs, just to end up stalling every time.

---

I've got a set of paddle shifts being manufactured at MK right now! I think they're cable rather than solid rod operated as well.

It's nice to have shiney things!

All I need to do now is figure out how to get the R1 clocks, original switchgear and paddles shifts aroundthe steering wheel - then it's getting a small patch of carbon fibre as a binnacle and that's it for the dash (Mr J and myself spent a mornibng of First Engineering's time working on the basic design!)

PS - Looking for a set of old sierra wheels to use as build wheels (depending on price!) if anyone's got soem lying around?

[Edited on 31/8/06 by StevieB]

quote:

---

All I need to do now is figure out how to get the R1 clocks, original switchgear and paddles shifts aroundthe steering wheel - then it's getting a small patch of carbon fibre as a binnacle and that's it for the dash (Mr J and myself spent a mornibng of First Engineering's time working on the basic design!)

---

Don't put the clocks behind the wheel as you won't be able to see them - mine are in the centre and they're absolutely fine! You learn when to change gear, and the idiot lights make themselves known if they come on.... If you feel the need to look at the speedo, then you'd be making a conscious effort anyway!

Hope this helps....

---

StevieB - 31/8/06 at 10:38 AM

I'd been starting to think that way anyway - it's all well and good on paper, but once you measure all of the components, it's a bit of a squeeze!

I was still thinking of doing something with the R1 switchgear though - mounted on the tunnel on a sort of aircraft style control (could be an SVA fail?)

---

Coose - 31/8/06 at 11:13 AM

Can't really help you there. I've got switches scattered about on the dashboard that would probably fail SVA as they're within 15 miles of the steering wheel or something!

Others should be able to point you in the right direction there.....

---

StevieB - 31/8/06 at 11:17 AM

I actually bought the SVA manual - might as well open that apcket it came in!

---

zxrlocost - 1/9/06 at 10:11 AM

look in my photo album

paddle shift

r1 clocks

and savage switches

all SVA passed as is

chris

---

Ferrino - 1/9/06 at 10:50 AM

My contribution to the carb vs. EFI discussion is not to assume bike carbs are anything like Webers used on X-flows/Pintos/Zetecs etc.... I've never known of anyone who has been entirely happy with their Weber config. and there seems to be a lack of professionals who really know how to set them up correctly. But these dinky little Mikuni CV jobbies on the R1 really are fit-and-forget (after rejetting), with the occasional balancing (but you have to balance TBs too, right?). What do any of the more experienced carbed BEC owners think?

---

Coose - 3/9/06 at 08:41 PM

Ferrino is absolutely right - I couldn't have put it better myself!

---

StevieB - 4/9/06 at 11:41 AM

Carbs it'll be then - cheeper to buy the engine, cheaper to set up and, to be honest, you can't beat being able to tweek carbs over having to use electronic gizmo's on any engine - it's just more fun!

---

Coose - 4/9/06 at 05:29 PM

And have a peek at these for the prettiest carbs you will ever see (and probably the most expensive - about £1000 + theft! )



They're in a box in my garage, awaiting me getting around to trying them....

---

StevieB - 4/9/06 at 05:35 PM

Very nice - but for the money, I'll have to stick with the standard ones I think

I think I'll bolt a spirit level to my bulk head too - it looks good!

---

Coose - 4/9/06 at 06:13 PM

Ah, I never said that I paid that for 'em though!

Every car should have a spirit level fitted. Luckily, that was a magnetic one!

---

StevieB - 4/9/06 at 06:30 PM

Spirit level will be the ONLY thing under my bonnet at my current rate of building!

Should have it on wheels soon though, since I'm on leave for a fortnight and someone was kind enough to give me a set of donor wheels for free!

---

tks - 4/9/06 at 07:57 PM

i always would choose efi before carbs...

carbs are only for one thing full open..
and the reason they never run like efi is just because they don't adjust them selves to situation changes... and thats it...

- cold mornings
- high altitudes
- Hills
- Wrong gears..

etc. etc.

also i'm pretty sure the mpg is much worse then with efi (when at operating temp.)

etc..

Tks

GO EFI! dont buy WWII stuff....

---

StevieB - 4/9/06 at 08:07 PM

High altitudes and cold mornings aren't going to be a problem. I've been up most of the highest peaks in this land and never suffered altitude sickness myself, so can't see why an engine would. And I just do do cold mornings myself anymore!

Hills/wrong gears is a different matter though, but if you're in the wrong gear, it's the drivers fault for not being better at driving!

---

Coose - 5/9/06 at 01:42 PM

quote:

---

Originally posted by tks
i always would choose efi before carbs...

carbs are only for one thing full open..
and the reason they never run like efi is just because they don't adjust them selves to situation changes... and thats it...

- cold mornings
- high altitudes
- Hills
- Wrong gears..

etc. etc.

also i'm pretty sure the mpg is much worse then with efi (when at operating temp.)

etc..

Tks

GO EFI! dont buy WWII stuff....

---

Try driving a BEC on carbs that are properly set up - you won't find a problem.....

---

tks - 5/9/06 at 01:53 PM

its just that an electronic system can function x% better at those situation where sparks timeing etc. etc. needs to be adjusted..

its an complex mixed situation..

Tks

also driveability should be better on an efi engine...

---