Hi, my name is David and this is my first posting.
I am in the 'planning' stages of my first build. I have the Ron Champion 'Bible' and one thing is obvious - as I am not going to
be using a Ford Escort as a donor vehicle (because I dont think I will find one) I will be unable to use the book to the letter.
A million pitfalls spring to mind, but please tell me, if you would be so kind, what would you have done differently for your first build?
My engineering and design skills are above average but my wallet opening skills are almost non-existent. I do, however, recognise that I will NOT be
building a car for £250 and that money spend in the right areas will be an investment.
Thanks.
You don't neccessarily need the Escort to build a book car.
Engines, gearboxes, back axles, uprights, brakes etc are all available from ebay or other sources. See some of the for sale on here and keep a lookout
for items appearing.
Bodywork is available from any of the suppliers on this site.
only thing i would have changed is id'e have put a bike engine in 1st instead of the pinto, could have had a smaller trans tunnel if ide have
known what i was gonna do,
if you can find a Cortina, make a great donor.
where you at ? if its Mansfield i'm just down road.
Rebuilt the x-flow and not put a bag of sh1t bike engine in, I'd still have it now
I am indeed in Mansfield.
I think I favour the 'one donor' route which I am assuming will be some form of Sierra. I would love to build the chassis myself but I have
read on a builders website (forget which one) that he wished he had bought a frame ready built. God Ron says this is 50% of the build. I am a biker
at heart but cannot open my wallet far enough to but a decent engine AND all the bits I would need from at least one donor car.
tempted to build another one Chris (still be SVA'd before mine
)
ATB Dan.
if you aint building the chassis buy a sierra and an MK indy kit, if your building your chassis buy a cortina and nick the engine out ya bike.
weather permitting i'm hoping to nip over too MK one day this week, providing there open that is, come along and have a peek.
[Edited on 28/12/04 by Jon Ison]
I am also very close to Robin Hood Engineering, is that a dirty phrase on this forum?
Not dirty, just a common source of mirth
Is it the Lada of the kit/seven car world?
More of the comedy support act
You could argue that a R**** H**d looks like a seven, but under the skin they are nothing like.
The biggest problems are the chassis, the rear axle and suspension, the front suspension, the interior, the exterior, er and I think that there was
some other stuff too but I cant remember it all...
Mark
Okay. the Hood is a No No. What are the pitfalls of a Sierra powered Ron Champion?
To be fair to RH, some of the stuff is useable, but with quite a lot of fettling. Some people have made quite good cars, but they are not straight forward, easy or conventional. They are made down to a price, I suppose you get what you pay for, £1000 is not a lot for a full kit
Where would you like to start?
Front perhaps? Steering rack to wide unless you build chassis wider. Four inches is good! Engine? You may be unfortunate enough to end up with a
1.8CVH. I was and threw it in a skip
Rear suspension will need to be replaced with either De Dion or IRS. See Craig1410's website re details of de Dion if you go that route. If IRS
buy Tiger Avon book and bastardise the two chassis.
If you build chassis wider, you'll need to make your own or mod someone elses rear panel/scuttle/bonnet and nose.
If you go wider, you may also like to consider putting in a proper engine.
What would I do if I knew then what I know now?
Buy a Viento and be on the road two years ago!!!!!!!!
HTH
ATB
Simon
PS Welcome to the forum
I have read there are chassis plans FOC at 4" wider courtesy of mscmorely, is this a good bet?
And what would you call a proper engine?
quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
You could argue that a R**** H**d looks like a seven, but under the skin they are nothing like.
The biggest problems are the chassis, the rear axle and suspension, the front suspension, the interior, the exterior, er and I think that there was some other stuff too but I cant remember it all...
Mark
quote:
Originally posted by Mansfield
I have read there are chassis plans FOC at 4" wider courtesy of mscmorely, is this a good bet?
And what would you call a proper engine?
Here, save money by putting a Pinto engine in - then double it when when you've experienced a bike engined car - seems like a growing number of
CEC owners are swapping to BEC if they're not BEC already!
Save up for a more worthwhile investment... go BEC!
I would have used round tube and sloped it downwards at the sides by you elbows as the original seven.
This is one thing iI did not do and have always regretted.
I put in a crossflow engine even though i have a blade engine ready to fit, but cant bring myself to rip it all out to fit a bike engine now its
finished as to much work with exhaust, prop and dash to change.
I also would go for the GTS de dion if using a sierra donor.
Paul.
keep it simple and stick to the book or the mcsorely plans as much as you can. or buy a kit, which will give you a huge start and make things easier
and give a faster build.
All things I didnt do.....
If you actually look at the bits you really need from an escort, its precious little! So an escort is not essential. a mk4/5 cortina appears to be the
best fit - but they are a tad rare
atb
steve
[Edited on 28/12/04 by stephen_gusterson]
quote:
Originally posted by Mansfield
I have read there are chassis plans FOC at 4" wider courtesy of mscmorely, is this a good bet?
And what would you call a proper engine?
well , after buying a chassis second hand , i would deffo build a +4 , it gives you more options - but then im wanting to build a complete composite chassis . Dont overlook some more mundane donors that have more powerful engines as std . If youre buying a kit , stick to it .
I agree with everything Mike has said, the 18CVH can be fitted without insummountable problems, but is very fragile if not properly serviced
throughout its life, and you are limited to 90bhp.
The pinto will fit into a book chassis, but it is VERY tight, if you drop a socket, it never reaches the workshop floor!
Rescued attachment TightPinto.jpg
I'd have done the following differently:
For fitting the Pinto I'd have added 1" height to the chassis/engine bay.
Used GTS' De Dion back end (as opposed to my own IRS system).
Mounted the engine lower.
plus numerous other things...
HTH,
James
[Edited on 29/12/04 by James]
quote:
Originally posted by Simon
Buy a Viento and be on the road two years ago!!!!!!!!
"Does that mean that come 22nd Jan, I will then be on the road for 2003?"
Pass
I do know that on boxing day it was a year since I first started my engine, and I've been mucking around with bodywork since! Still, hoping to
have it ready for spraying within a couple of weeks, then one or two more minor jobs (plumbing brakes and engine) and finally the 'kin
hazards
I really, really, really want to be ready for the 1st March!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Which would be 2.66 years build approx
ATB
Simon
[Edited on 29/12/04 by Simon]
Worst thing I did was fit a dodgy plastic fuel tank!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
After looking at the advice you have kindly offerred +4/De-Dion/2.0 Sierra looks realistic. The devil side of me wonders if a V6 Granada lump would
be too heavy or too awkward or maybe too powerful! My sensible side does not like this idea at all. Or a 3.0 Carlton.
Thank you for all your advice, if there are any other problems you can help me avoid - please dont be shy. Heard a quote once 'wise is a man who
learns from the mistakes of others' or something like that.....
if you feel that 4 pot sierra power isnt enough (roughly 120 bhp and 500 kgs, so 240bpt), the next step towards more power is to decide if you want
bike power (weight good, sequential box can be annoying, apparently, for everyday use), or a more modern 4 pot, maybe zetec or vauxhall (200bhp on
carb? not sure. either way, around 400bpt depending on money spent). Bigger engines can be used, maybe rover v8 for instance, or a turbo'd
engine, but the use of old ford v6s is rarer, due to the fact that they arent actually that powerful, and weigh craploads.
me, id choose a bike engine next, but i can also see where people are coming from when they say they want a proper engine with proper torque.
personal choice, dont ya just love it!
a new r1 is 175bhp apparently, and a good 50kgs lighter than a similar power car engine.
[Edited on 30/12/04 by JoelP]
wots all this Talk about Torque, i don't recall having to go up n down box to keep a car with a bike engine in it moving and even if you did gear
changes are effortless anyhow.
£ for £ its gota be bike engine every time, yup i'm biased i know. The V6 ford mentioned above would never get near a bike engined (zero torque)
car, it might be able to pull tree stumps up but keep up with a BEC, never.
well i think what i would do differant is not build my own kit, and go straight to caterham and buy one of there cars, a real
seven...........lol........sorry i must of been hanging out on blat chat to long, sorry if i swore