Jon Ison
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| posted on 8/10/05 at 03:38 PM |
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Pro's n con's opinions req'd
Rear engined BEC, so engine is mounted same as in bike........
What would happen (with a good oiling system) if the engine was inclined forward by say 10-15* would be possible too get a better angle into the carbs
/ throttle bodies for the intake flow maybe ? mount the engine a tad lower maybe ?
would the engine like it though..... thoughts ? pro's con's.......
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kb58
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| posted on 8/10/05 at 04:42 PM |
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It's too vague a question, all bike engines will be fine... to a point. What G forces will it see, that answers the question. It all depends
on the oiling system. I do know that the Hayabusa needs a dry-sump when put in a road car, especially one intended for the track, but the R1 does
not... so it all depends.
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 8/10/05 at 04:59 PM |
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Hi Jon
If its an injected engine and you had a dry sump made that would ensure it picked up the oil where its going to run to, then I cant think of anything
else that would cause issues.
If carbs, then it might be more difficult. They will be quite sensitive to angle as the float bowls etc need to be at the same set angle as if the
engine was upright.
What do you mean by improving the intake flow by changing the angles? Generally bike carbs / TBs are dead straight onto the ports so any angle change
would add a bend into the intake system so wouldnt improve things I wouldnt think.
cheers
Chris
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 8/10/05 at 05:03 PM |
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chris i'm thinking 2 things
1
it would lift in my case the sprocket and allow me too run the chain where i want too and add a chassis rail where i want too (stiffen rear end up
2
The intakes are pointing backwards ? the air as too turn something like 130* to go down the trumpets from a forward facing air box this could be cut
down ? may not make a difference just pondering and listening to peoples thoughts.
Vague ? bike engine mounted in rear engined car, same orientation as bike but tipped / rolled forward as if the bike was riding down hill........
[Edited on 8/10/05 by Jon Ison]
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kb58
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| posted on 8/10/05 at 05:18 PM |
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If you tip it too far oil may have a hard time returning from the cams to the sump. I've seen that happen. Again, "too far" is all
relative, depending on the engine and what it's subjected to.
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 8/10/05 at 05:32 PM |
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Ah I see what you mean, I was thinking inlet tract straightness rather than airflow from the outside into the airbox etc.
TBH I dont think it would make any difference on that score, a good airbox should provide virtually still air in front of the carbs / tb's
anyway, it shouldnt flow straight in and down the inlet throats as it would still be turbulent then, meaning less air getting into the engine.
Chris
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tks
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| posted on 9/10/05 at 09:38 PM |
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an f1 airbox
is the same idea...
just straight air gets in..and goes down..
or am i talking rubissh now?
TKS
p.s. for engine angle i took on my car the sump as reference and the tipical honda lines/stripes..
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 10/10/05 at 11:38 AM |
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The air doesnt flow straight in and down the throttles, ie if the car is doing 100mph does not mean the air goes down the throttles at 100mph, the air
will be still until its sucked in by the engine.
This is how I understand it....
Im pretty certain an F1 airbox works like any other ram air type airbox, whereby the aim is to build up air pressure inside the airbox to force more
air into the engine when the throttles open. To do this, there must be more air going into the airbox than is being consumed by the engine. The air
that is in the airbox waiting to be swallowed by the engine will be still. The air coming in behind this stationary air will gradually slow down and
also become stationary, but in the process will be pressurising the already stationary air inside the airbox.
Think of a water reserviour created with a dam across a river to restrict its path. The water level will build up behind the dam, and where the water
flows through the small hole in the dam it will be forced through under more pressure because of the increased water level behind it. However, its
flow through the dam is not actually directly affected by the speed of the water flowing into the reserviour because the water immediately behind the
dam is actually still, not flowing. If the upstream water speed suddenly increased, the speed of water through the dam would increase, but only
because the water level behind the dam would be getting higher (so increasing pressure), not because the increase in water speed is actually pushing
it through faster.
Chris
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 10/10/05 at 03:03 PM |
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Chris great description, wont it slow me down a little pulling a dam behind me ?
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 10/10/05 at 06:17 PM |
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LOL, you'll have an advantage at most Cadwell meetings tho
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