smart51
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 posted on 16/9/06 at 08:19 PM |
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Have I "lunched" my 'box?
About half way through my track day at Elvington today, me gearbox started jumping out of 2nd and into neutral if I put any real power on. It shifts
into and out of 2nd just fine and will drive at a steady speed OK but even a quarter throttle will pop it straight out.
Is it repairable or is it a new engine job?
How much is a replacement 98/99 bare engine likely to cost me?
Is a 2000/2002 carbed R1 just a bolt in replacement and is it really any better?
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nitram38
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| posted on 16/9/06 at 08:23 PM |
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I would check your engine mounts first. It could be your engine twisting under power and pulling the shift.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 16/9/06 at 08:24 PM |
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Your gear selector forks are bent by the sound of it - between £50 for one and £150 for all three. The forks were prolly damaged to start with...
it's usually caused by the biker keeping his foot on the gear selector peg.
Steve
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smart51
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| posted on 16/9/06 at 08:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
Your gear selector forks are bent by the sound of it - between £50 for one and £150 for all three
Is that for the parts only? How difficult a job is it to do?
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RichieC
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| posted on 16/9/06 at 09:16 PM |
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Second the bent fork theory, possibly worn/damaged drum or dog but you wont know until you have a look see.
Its a Haynes job but scary enough if youve never had a bike box apart.
Definately worth having it done rather than a new engine though and the injection R1s are not a direct replacement. Youll need new engine
mounts/cradle, new manifold, new loom and you may have to cut a hole in the bonnet for a filter as it sits higher in the VortX.
Good luck
Richie
[Edited on 16/9/06 by RichieC]
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smart51
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| posted on 16/9/06 at 09:21 PM |
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I wouldn't go for an injection R1 - too much to change. I don't know how much similarity there is between 98/99 and 00/01 carbed engines.
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RichieC
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| posted on 16/9/06 at 09:25 PM |
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Apologies I misread your post.
Again though, the 5JJ engines have different mounts to the 4XV, they have a bolt less on the top for starters and the other dont line up so youll need
another cradle. Could mean youll have to move your manifold a bit.
Also, they have a different ECU and electrics.
Not sure if Id want the hassle for the few improvements which were made.
Rgds
Rich
[Edited on 16/9/06 by RichieC]
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OX
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| posted on 17/9/06 at 01:00 AM |
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5jj has the sanme edngine mojntsd asd the 4xz
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RichieC
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| posted on 17/9/06 at 06:23 AM |
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I thought the 4XV had 2 bolts at the top on each side, maybe not I could be thinking of the inj R1s.
Either way, the 5JJ is a different thread to 4XVs. I had to tap all of mine out to use M12s as some were M10 Fine and others M12 Fine.
If thats the nonly difference though, shouldnt be a big issue.
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fesycresy
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| posted on 17/9/06 at 07:46 AM |
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Injected R1 has one bolt either side same as the carb models.
I think its was 2004 onwards that the motor size / mounts changed.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.
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smart51
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| posted on 17/9/06 at 08:34 AM |
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I've had a look through haynes and its a 4 spanner job. You have to take apart the whole engine and that's just to find out whats
wrong.
so it could be the selector fork, the selector drum or the dogs on the gears. Are all these parts available / cheap? How much is a bare engine these
days? Add gaskets and things and it might be better jsut to swap.
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chockymonster
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| posted on 17/9/06 at 09:05 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by fesycresy
Injected R1 has one bolt either side same as the carb models.
I think its was 2004 onwards that the motor size / mounts changed.
The 5PW mounts are different to earlier carb models as the sump is much deeper. If you were able to bodge the mounts in the MNR chassis the sump would
be hanging underneath the chassis rails.
PLEASE NOTE - Responses on Forum Threads may contain Sarcasm and may not be suitable for the hard of Thinking.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 17/9/06 at 09:34 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by smart51
I've had a look through haynes and its a 4 spanner job. You have to take apart the whole engine and that's just to find out whats
wrong.
so it could be the selector fork, the selector drum or the dogs on the gears. Are all these parts available / cheap? How much is a bare engine these
days? Add gaskets and things and it might be better jsut to swap.
So long as you do the job methodically and take your time, it really isn't too difficult. However, getting hold of the parts you need could
prove expensive unless you can source some second hand stuff. If I were you, I'd change the oil and carry on using the car for whats left of the
summer whilst trying to source cheap spares. From similar experience with our first Blade engine, my guess is you'll probably need a new 2nd
gear and possibly a selector fork.
You can short shift 2nd gear whilst driving, although it is a PITA, and then take the engine out and strip it down at your leisure over the winter.
Phil
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JoelP
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| posted on 17/9/06 at 11:08 AM |
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i would be careful about keeping on using it whilst it is jumping. Someone said about fireblades the other day that eventually something breaks and
the entire gearbox goes tits up. Im guessing similar sh*t could go wrong in any box. 
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Catpuss
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| posted on 17/9/06 at 02:00 PM |
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I've heard of the same symptoms caused by rounded dogs, at least on Honda gear boxes. Usually the 2nd gear takes alot of abuse on a bike engine.
Bent/damaged forks may cause the gear selection to be rough. With the dogs damaged the engine can fall out of gear under accelleration.
In the past certain generations of Suzuki engines have been know for dropping out a few times then, Cilit Bang and the gear is gone.
As others say, rebuilding the gear box is a good proposition. One thing you may have to look out for, different bike gears vary on which part but,
once the 2nd gear is off the shaft it must be discarded and replaced. I think its something to do with the metal types to help absorb abuse.
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smart51
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| posted on 17/9/06 at 04:25 PM |
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On an R1, 1st is cut into the shaft, 2nd is made of 2 slide on sprockets.
It goes into gear just fine so rounded off dogs seems likely. Are 2nd hand sprockets easy to find? I guess most people (like me) treat the engine as
a single part.
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Catpuss
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| posted on 17/9/06 at 07:43 PM |
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You could try a breakers yard for the gears, ebay or go to your local yammy dealer and order the part.
Or look in MCN for mail order parts companies and order the bits new there.
If its not the destructo gear (i.e throw away once removed) then you can probably get new parts for a reasonable sum.
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smart51
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| posted on 17/9/06 at 09:06 PM |
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There is a complete set of 2nd hand gearbox internals on eBay for £150 plus p&p. Add a complete set of gaskets (every last nut and bolt to come
off other than the conrods) and the cost of the special tools needed and I'm getting to serious money. A bare enginemay only cost £50 more and
doesn't involve a complete rebuild. I guess I could even sell the old engine piece by piece.
Anyone got a 98/99 R1 engine for sale?
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Coose
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| posted on 19/9/06 at 08:42 PM |
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You don't need any special tools as such. It's a simple process if you're methodical and don't rush it.
Forks or (most probably) worn dogs will be the most likely cause, normally due to 1st-into-2nd gear wheelies..... I've just had to change 2nd
gear on my '72 XS650 due to worn dogs.
I'd look at the price of new gears from Yamaha - it might not be quite as scary as you think!
Spin 'er off Well...
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russbost
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| posted on 19/9/06 at 09:58 PM |
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Is this a common R1 problem I'm sure it's come upb4?
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G.Man
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| posted on 20/9/06 at 02:29 AM |
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Our race R1's were forever lunching gear selectors...
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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smart51
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| posted on 20/10/06 at 07:55 PM |
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It was a bent selector fork
The side of the selector fork had been ground back by the teeth on 6th gear. The effect of this was that it wasn't pushing into 2nd gear quite
as far as it should, rounding off the dogs.
The guy at the shop (an australian named bruce) said that a hand lever couldn't have done that - it must have been a foot. Hopefully it was the
bike owner who cause most of the damage, not me.
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