doughie
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 posted on 10/5/06 at 07:15 PM |
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R1 or ZX12R??
what a choice...!!
am looking for advcie about what a zx12 install will look like in erlation to parts and cost...??
i beleive a dry sump is needed (£700), what else is required??
an R1 install is relatively simple with little extra cost on top of the engine...
am i right?
ta in advance for your reply
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kb58
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| posted on 10/5/06 at 07:23 PM |
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And no dry-sump for the R1.
The price you have for a dry-sump sounds low. For the Hayabusa at least it's about US$2200.
[Edited on 5/10/06 by kb58]
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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erwe
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| posted on 10/5/06 at 07:35 PM |
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I have a ZX12 seven for track only and a Fireblade seven for road use.
R1 is enough for normal road and light track, ZX12 is way too much power in my opinion. And R1 is much cheaper, even in Netherlands. A friend of my
bought a R1 for 750 euros complete with wiring loom and exhaust. I know UK is much more expensive but I had to mention it 
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Winston Todge
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| posted on 10/5/06 at 07:38 PM |
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Most people will say the same probably...
R1 is proven, reliable, one of the cheaper modern bike engines and fairly straightforward to install, with good power.
The ZX12R has a big dollop more power and torque but will cost you between 400 to 600 quid more for the kit and a fair amount more than 700 quid for a
good dry sump... Again though a few have used ZX12's without dry sumps and haven't as of yet had probs.
Simply bang for buck, the R1 is the way to go. But the ZX12 will give you a noticeable hike in performance but at a cost...
Chris.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 10/5/06 at 07:51 PM |
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Both are cracking engines for the money and once you factor in the 25-30kg weight saving of the R1 over the big bore engines (busa / ZX12),
there's not as much performance difference as the 25bhp power gap would initially suggest, and from experience I would say the performance gap
between a blade and the R1 is much bigger than R1 to busa/ZX12.
A ZX12 would still be the slightly quicker car (mostly at very high speed), but there's nowhere enough difference in performance to say
things like one is "enough" for road use whilst the other is "way too powerful".
cheers
Chris
[Edited on 10/5/06 by ChrisGamlin]
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fesycresy
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| posted on 10/5/06 at 07:56 PM |
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Has anyone tried the GSXR 1000 motor ?
Any opinions ?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.
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doughie
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| posted on 10/5/06 at 08:02 PM |
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wow, cheers guys - thats alot of replies
what are your views on longevity between the two??
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G.Man
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| posted on 10/5/06 at 08:39 PM |
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The dry sump kit is about £700+vat, but you need all the pipes, cooler, aeroquip fittings and oil tank as well..
All in around £1200
The dry sump kit gives a hike in performance as well as improved lubrication reliability, so its worth it if you are going for the long run...
Longevity wise, they are both good, but the 12r will last longer in terms of excitement imho
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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Hellfire
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| posted on 10/5/06 at 08:44 PM |
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We have had no problems with not dry sumping our ZX12R BUT we haven't done a trackday in the dry yet... and to be honest we're a little
anxious about doing one for the obvious reasons.
We have a well proven chopped and baffled sump but still reluctant to trackday.
The R1 is well proven and used on many kits but is still not as bullet-proof as the blade. IMO if I was to do another it would probably be an R1... as
already stated the difference isn't that much!
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yorkshire-engines
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| posted on 10/5/06 at 09:19 PM |
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SUZUKI WAY TO GO
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doughie
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| posted on 10/5/06 at 09:38 PM |
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suzuki?
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chris_harris_
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| posted on 10/5/06 at 11:15 PM |
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I haven't fitted a Suzuki GSXR 1000, YET!! but will be soon. Malc at yorkshire engines loves them, MK engineering has just done one and loves it
and mac#1 are doing one too! Your spoilt for choice mate, all good engines, depends on how much money you want to spend, don't think
you'll be dissappointed with any choice you make. Also ask yourself, how confident and willing you are in "making" things,
you'll need all manner of brackets and things as you go along, especially with an engine that not that many people have used. Good luck though!!
Regards Chris
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Winston Todge
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| posted on 11/5/06 at 06:47 AM |
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So people are starting to use the GSXR's now, eh?
Has anyone proven that they don't need a dry sump yet? Thrashed around a dry track sans dry sump without any problems?
Chris.
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progers
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| posted on 11/5/06 at 07:34 AM |
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Jury is still out on the GSXR as to whether it will be robust in a seven install i.e. engine longitudinal installation.
Its a well proven engine in sidecars but orientation is different.
I'm looking forward to seeing a few (i.e. more than one) have a good spanking around several tracks with sticky tyres to see how they cope.
It'll be good if they stand up to it as it will offer more choice and keep R1 prices down :-)
- Paul
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smart51
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| posted on 11/5/06 at 07:41 AM |
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ZX12 is more powerfull but hevier. Power to weight is not much better overall but...
An R1 7 starts to slow down at 90 - 100 MPH. It takes as long to get from 0-95 as from 95-110 MPH. A ZX12 has more power but the same aerodynamics.
It will keep on going at 90 and will slow down at higher speeds. ZX12 for track use. R1 is fine for road use.
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nitram38
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| posted on 11/5/06 at 08:17 AM |
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While you guys are talking about engines, could you answer another question?
If a bec enginge is mounted the same way round as in a bike, does it still suffer oil surge problems?
The only way oil surge could be a problem, as far as I can see, is that a bec does not lean into corners whereas the R1 would.
I want to build a rear engined R1 car. I know that a baffle plate and slightly different pickup can be fitted (which I will opt for).
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 11/5/06 at 10:05 PM |
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Whichever way round you fit it, you can suffer oil surge in a BEC. As you say the bike leans into the corner so there are no actual sideways forces on
the oil, its counter-acted by the bike leaning, but in any decent BEC there's maybe 1G of cornering forces trying to make the oil run up the
side of the engine and away from the pickup.
Some engines (the Blackbird is an example, and also likely the GXSR1000 to an extent) seem happier in the transverse orientation than when mounted
longitudinally as in a front engine'd BEC, where they suffer far more from surge simply down to their sump design working better in one
direction than the other.
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