G.Man
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| posted on 28/11/06 at 01:03 PM |
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Arrrgghhhh Barnet Clutch Plates
Well, stripped my car today to find the barnett clutch plates have disintegrated, and the resulting carnage has destroyed the clutch basket...
Bearing in mind these lasted less than 50 miles, and the stock plates lasted MUCH longer, i cannot recommend staying away from these enough...
Looking like a new billet clutch basket and upgraded clutch from muzzy's is the way forward...
Only $1000 + shipping  gutted
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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DIY Si
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| posted on 28/11/06 at 01:07 PM |
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Oh, good (in a way for me) timing, as I'm about to strip and replace my clutch. I was looking at the barnett clutchs too! Can you not get a
cheaper billet basket from anywhere, and are they needed in a bec? (I'm trying to keep cost down) Have Barnett said anything about the
ridiculous life of the parts yet?
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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G.Man
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| posted on 28/11/06 at 01:10 PM |
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I dont think the billet basket is required, but if you have a zx12r I highly recommend looking at the muzzys clutch upgrade, as it massively improves
oil flow to the clutch, and my clutch mainly appeared to have worn due to lack of oil flow..
Havent spoken to barnett, not worth the effort...
The Muzzy clutch upgrade kit includes plates, springs, clutch centre (crossdrilled to improve oil flow) and a few other parts...
worth $324 of anyones money after i paid $200+ for just the barnett clutch plates and springs!!!!
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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tks
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| posted on 28/11/06 at 01:31 PM |
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mhhh
Thats a good point!!
Where did i ever read that new plates needs to be left overnight in fresh bike oil?? Before fitment!!
in you setup you mount them dry and they hardly will get oiled right??
since the fact that they wear only nothing to become unusable..
Tks
[Edited on 28/11/06 by tks]
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 28/11/06 at 01:43 PM |
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Just a point worth noting but stock clutch steels for the ZX12R are available in 1.4mm, 1.6mm and 2.0mm thickness IIRC. Might be worth checking the
thickness of the ones you have and maybe replace all steels with 2.0mm
Phil
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Phil.J
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| posted on 28/11/06 at 01:47 PM |
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I've had no issues with Barnett plates in my dry sumped GSX-R engined hillclimb single seater(200hp + soft slicks + tyre warming + double
driven). Barnett springs yes, I do need to change them twice a year or the clutch slips.
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G.Man
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| posted on 28/11/06 at 04:14 PM |
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Yes the plates were soaked in oil before fitment, not it isnt down to the thickness as it came with new frictions and steels and the clutch stack was
measured..
The problem is that the material came away from the plates due to heat buildup.. now bear in mind, these are sold as race plates, yet the quality of
them is not a patch on stock kawasaki plates...
The original zx12r did have some clutch lubrication issues, and they are not fed from the dry sump, they are fed from an oilway in the gearbox input
shaft... this spits oil into the inside of the clutch where centrifugal force does the rest...
Sadly the kawasaki zx12r A1 was not very good at this and now kawasaki sell replacement parts that distribute the oil better...
The stock plates lasted over a 1000km, the barnet ones lasted less than 50km...
Please credit me with some intelligence as an ex bsb technician... and the fact that the plates come with a big label that says these must be soaked
in oil for at least one hour before installation...
BTW. these plates are the new material they have just started selling in the last 6 months, they are red rather than brown... so all reports of older
materials may be invalid, and I have to say, i was surprised at how thin the friction material was compared to what was left on the original plates...
it was no thicker than a cornflake packet!
PS. I will post some pics of the stock plates that came out, and the barnett plates that came out when i get a chance...
[Edited on 28/11/06 by G.Man]
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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Hellfire
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| posted on 28/11/06 at 04:41 PM |
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It may be worth getting in touch with Barnett and informing them, especially if they are a new product. Could be a manufacturing defect or inferior
material. They may have had loads of complaints about them already. You never know, they may even reimburse you. You've got nothing to
lose..............
Phil
[Edited on 28-11-06 by Hellfire]
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fesycresy
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| posted on 28/11/06 at 07:46 PM |
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Perhaps you're slipping the clutch like a big jesse ?
Keep it on the cam 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.
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G.Man
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| posted on 28/11/06 at 08:00 PM |
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Only to pull away, and I wasnt driving when it blew..
so I cannot say how it was being driven.. grrr
Anyway, its going back together with updated kawasaki parts and I will cross drill the clutch hub to improve the lubrication to the plates...
Sadly the clutch explosion has cracked the clutch casing which is magnesium so cannot be welded... Looks like a job for JB Weld epoxy then..
Chris, sorry yes, the olduns were green not brown, my mistake
sigh
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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G.Man
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| posted on 4/1/07 at 06:23 AM |
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Just to follow up on this..
If you have an A1 zx12r there is uprated clutch parts available (basket and hub)
Apparently they don't provide enough oil to the clutch plates with the stock parts...
Grrrrr
Guess this is why the barnett clutch disintegrated taking the basket with it...
Anyway, useful info..
Now have all the new parts, only £500
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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clutch_kick
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| posted on 4/1/07 at 12:20 PM |
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Ok so while on the subject ... I may have found a 2002 ZX-12r 'B' model engine locally. Any pro's/con's G.Man?
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Hellfire
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| posted on 4/1/07 at 12:40 PM |
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In 2002, the ZX12 got a major revamp. These are the second generation or B models. Engine improvements included a heavier balanced crank for smoother
riding as well as oval throttle pulleys for smoother acceleration. IIRC, the clutch issues on the A1 models were quickly resolved by Kawasaki,
possibly on the A2 model.
Phil
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G.Man
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| posted on 4/1/07 at 12:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by clutch_kick
Ok so while on the subject ... I may have found a 2002 ZX-12r 'B' model engine locally. Any pro's/con's G.Man?
Thats about the best model, except you will need a bonneville box from muzzies to remove the speed restriction..
http://www.muzzys.com/MZPM-K12/index.html
reiterate what hellfire said...
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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clutch_kick
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| posted on 4/1/07 at 01:01 PM |
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Right. I'm not really interested in going upto 300km/h in an open cockpit, just going round corners without braking 
So if i get a good deal, i go for it then i guess. Should keep me busy over the summer, refurbishing the donor parts and engine, and get building next
winter.
*** Grrrrr ... I think faster than i can type!!
[Edited on 4/1/07 by clutch_kick]
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Hellfire
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| posted on 4/1/07 at 01:09 PM |
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From what I have read on the subject, the Bonneville box may actually be a waste of money and it's doubtful whether it works at all.
Phil
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G.Man
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| posted on 5/1/07 at 07:45 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
From what I have read on the subject, the Bonneville box may actually be a waste of money and it's doubtful whether it works at all.
Phil
Source?
Clutch kick
you need it if you need max rpm in top gear, ie about 130mph
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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Hellfire
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| posted on 5/1/07 at 10:42 AM |
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Apologies - my post is incorrect and as some of my more recent posts have been misconstrued lately, allow me to point out that this was in no way a
dig at the manufacturer
The statement I made was in relation to ZX12R models other than 2001 to 2003 models ie. 2000 & 2004 onwards (which wasn’t clear from my
post – although it probably looks like I’m back pedalling now)
As you know, the only model ZX12R that was derestricted as stock, is the A1 model. All other models since then have an imposed 186mph speed limit
restrictor built into the ECU. The Bonneville Box is available for the A2, B1 & B2 models only and de-restricts the speed limiter in 6th gear by
fooling the ECU into thinking that the bike is going slower than it actually is. So on these models, the Bonneville Box does work.
Just out of interest, apparently a yellow-box can also achieve the same thing by reducing the speedo readout. What seems to be a bit of a grey area
though, is where the ECU gets its signal from and whereabouts you connect the yellow-box in relation to the ECU and speedo to achieve this.
In the real world, a Bonneville Box will give you maybe an extra 10mph max, when you’re flat out in sixth. Now I don’t know about you but apart from a
run on a dyno at Holeshot, I have never seen 12,750rpm in sixth gear. Even if you had the box fitted, you’d probably run out of straight road in a
seven before its effects were felt and therefore IMO, it is not worth the money. Besides, think of all that extra weight 
Phil
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clutch_kick
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| posted on 5/1/07 at 12:24 PM |
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Hold on ... what does the ECU restriction use, Speed readout, or RPM in 6th Gear?
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Hellfire
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| posted on 5/1/07 at 12:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by clutch_kick
Hold on ... what does the ECU restriction use, Speed readout, or RPM in 6th Gear?
Therein lies the grey area. I have heard that it uses the speedo pick-up to activate the limiter, so if you connect the yellow-box between the pick-up
and the ECU, in theory it can be fooled. That's only what I've heard though, I know next to nothing about electrics. It may be the speedo,
the gear position sensor, the RPM's or a combination of any of those.
Phil
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clutch_kick
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| posted on 5/1/07 at 01:50 PM |
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Well if it is a combination of signals, and the ECU specifically needs to know that it is in Sixth, then all you have to do is eliminate the little
bugger telling the ecu that you're in sixth.
It's a pity that Tuneboy in Australia do not have the access to map the Kawasaki ECU's. A friend of mine has the software and tunes out
his triumph speed triple with it, and it is an excellent peice of kit. The Stock ECU is programmable using the Tune-edit software and cable.
Has anyone looked into using the Speed Triple 3 cylinder engine in a BEC?
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G.Man
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| posted on 5/1/07 at 03:55 PM |
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Hellfire, you are of course correct, very rare its gonna see max rpm in top...
Mine is an A1 and they are restricted in output... trumpets won't flow enough air, reduced advance... that means they dont quite have enough
grunt to get to 200mph...
However, the mods I have done have more than negated this... and I have new trumpets..
Didnt know about the 2004 onwards, but I will beleive you, as I have no reason to doubt, you know your stuff..
Clutch_kick the boneville box changes the gear position indicator so the ecu thinks you are in 5th...
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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G.Man
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| posted on 5/1/07 at 04:27 PM |
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Forgot to say, bitch slapped the car back together today, new clutch is peachy and seems good at the moment... fingers crossed...
2.5 hours to clean the dry sump pan and engine out, fit entire new clutch assembly, change filter, refil oil and start...
Was quite proud of myself... never managed a clutch change and sump clean that fast when i was changing a BSB slipper.. and boy did they blow up a
lot...
Not as funny tho as when my rider was on the line at mallory, went to pull away at the start, and threw the chain out the back of the bike...
He was like, this darn clutch, and I said, I think you will be needing a new one of these... holding the chain the marshall brought to me... lmao
Rare to see an entire link snap, not the riveted one, a normal link... must have been a dodgy one...
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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clutch_kick
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| posted on 6/1/07 at 11:32 AM |
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Ok so instead of spending money on the bonneville box ... what if the ECU never knew it got to 6th? sneaky git hehehe
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G.Man
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| posted on 6/1/07 at 01:39 PM |
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You will have to be very sneaky, as you cannot just disconnect the gear position indicator..
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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