the_fbi
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| posted on 5/9/06 at 11:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jubal
Are you making up the parts yourself?
As for that question, can't see theres a lot to make.
Microsquirt will need a few sensors, most of which the engine will already have (eg. coolant temp) and throttle bodies with a TPS, like the
929/954/bird ones, which probably even fit onto the 919's intake, although thats a guess based on how similar the heads (or any bike engine
head) are.
O2 sensor will be needed, but thats just a boss in the collector, map sensor is an option but easily fitted in a vacuum line, the IAC valve is
probably the only weird one but that possibly exists already on the bodies?
Crank position, need to look into that at some point.
Microsquirt wiring info here
http://www.microsquirt.info/us_wiring.htm
[Edited on 5/9/06 by the_fbi]
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the_fbi
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| posted on 5/9/06 at 11:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jubal
You can keep smoothness, I want power 
Plus, the car is a trackday car first and foremost. Engine upgrade will be accompanied by new roll bar.
Well, bhp/£ with tested reliability is probably still the R1 engine.
Yes there are newer engines which chuck out more power, but they cost more and aren't significantly (for the money) more powerful.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 5/9/06 at 11:37 PM |
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How powerful is the version of the R1 you're looking at? The bird is something around 165-170 and 85-90 lb ft.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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the_fbi
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| posted on 5/9/06 at 11:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DIY Si
How powerful is the version of the R1 you're looking at? The bird is something around 165-170 and 85-90 lb ft.
A non-dry sumped bird isn't as reliable as a non-dry sumped R1 though, so yes the bird has more power than an R1, but if it was my money
I'd go with the more proven.
And I'm the one building a Megabird (with a blade engine) so I'm not biased against Birds!
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the_fbi
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| posted on 5/9/06 at 11:45 PM |
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That said, for this kind of money for a newish bird, it may sway me!
http://cgi1.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MakeTrack&item=300023764708
Especially if microsquirt was available as the HISS could be sold off to cover the costs of microsquirt.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 5/9/06 at 11:51 PM |
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An older carb'd engine can be had for about £1000-1200. Yes, I agree it's MAYBE not as reliable on a track as the R1, but it'll go
faster! The jury still seems to be out on that one though, as it is with most things BEC.
Actually, bu88er what I just said, buy that bird engine form the link before I do!!
[Edited on 6/9/06 by DIY Si]
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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fesycresy
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| posted on 6/9/06 at 07:49 AM |
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Already page 4 and no mention of a red top or zetec ! Perhaps they've seen the light
I'd go ZX12 by the way. Malc (Yorkshire Engines) has sold these for silly cheap, I'm sure I've seen them as cheap as £1,450 for a
kit, but may be wrong. That's a lot of go for your money.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.
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cossey
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| posted on 6/9/06 at 08:20 AM |
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04+ r1? the early ones are down to about £1500 now. its is a bit wider but lower than the earlier engines, thet are only a couple of bhp down on a
zx12r/busa but are considerably lighter. the sump is pretty much the same as the 02-03 so should be fine with a baffle.
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StevieB
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| posted on 6/9/06 at 09:07 AM |
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I'm sure I read something about the later R1 engines being difficult for BEC installations (not as useable as the older engines or some such).
Might be a load of ball-ox though
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Gav
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| posted on 6/9/06 at 11:20 AM |
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I think that might be the fact that on the later engines theirs less bottom end this making it hard for driving in traffic?
But on the other hand they have a better top end
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cossey
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| posted on 6/9/06 at 11:22 AM |
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ive got a 06 r1 in my fury ive had a few probs but nothing too major (mostly just getting parts made up as no one else had used one before).
the main thing that people say is wrong is a lack of torque, that is only partially true, it doesnt have the torque of the busa or zx12r but it is
just as good as the old r1 just with more revs to play with so more power. the stock bike has a fairly big dip in torque but that is due to the exup
valve which should be ditched.
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smart51
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| posted on 6/9/06 at 11:25 AM |
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the latest blades have 1000cc engines. Wouldn't that be the easiest upgrade from a 919cc blade? I don't know what parts are commong but
I'd hope you wouldn't have to move things too much. If you're lucky, the prop and exhaust manifolds would be in the same place and
might just bolt up without modification.
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the_fbi
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| posted on 6/9/06 at 11:28 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by smart51
the latest blades have 1000cc engines. Wouldn't that be the easiest upgrade from a 919cc blade? I don't know what parts are commong but
I'd hope you wouldn't have to move things too much. If you're lucky, the prop and exhaust manifolds would be in the same place and
might just bolt up without modification.
Unfotunately not.
From the 919 to 929/954 it all changed, from the 954 to 1L it all changed 
Prop may be Ok, but the manifold is more expensive and wont
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G.Man
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| posted on 6/9/06 at 12:19 PM |
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Blackbird would be my choice for simplicity and improvement in performance..
Just get a decent sump for it...
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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ned
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| posted on 6/9/06 at 12:48 PM |
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fit a proper engine - one out for a car like an ally block zetec se 1.6 with a kit from shawspeed to take it to 170bhp would probably cost near the
same amount as a new bec install
beware, I've got yellow skin
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cossey
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| posted on 6/9/06 at 01:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ned
fit a proper engine - one out for a car like an ally block zetec se 1.6 with a kit from shawspeed to take it to 170bhp would probably cost near the
same amount as a new bec install
£1330 for the upgrades +the base engine + £230 for the bell housing and maybe £50 for a reasonable type 9.
your looking at £2000+ you could easily get a full zx12r install for less than that which would be considerably quicker
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G.Man
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| posted on 6/9/06 at 02:18 PM |
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and thats assuming his chassis has enough room for a car box...
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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Hellfire
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| posted on 6/9/06 at 05:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ned
fit a proper engine - one out for a car like an ally block zetec se 1.6 with a kit from shawspeed to take it to 170bhp would probably cost near the
same amount as a new bec install
Considering he already has a bike engine in - he would need modifications to prop, probably dashboard (clocks) side panel (exits other side) and a
pretty much comprehensive re-loom... that would be much, much more... and still not have the agility of a BEC around what is stated as a predominantly
trackday car
Stick with BEC but try Nitrous... you could always sell it on should you want more power.
Steve
Steve
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Jubal
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| posted on 6/9/06 at 05:10 PM |
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So, I'm still undecided, apart from the fact that it will defo be a BEC. It's such an event, especially on track.
That Blackbird engine and a dry sump will be approx 1700. An '05 ZX10 was around 1500 last time I saw one for sale, an '06 more like 2k. A
ZX12 will be between 1600 and 2200 depending upon age. R1s from a grand upwards depending on age.
Has anyone else done a ZX10? I will give MK a call and see what they say. I'm really nervous of starting something I can't finish.
Mind you, I'm not making any decisions until after I've had a spin of the 954 blade engined Toniq-R later this month at Oulton.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 7/9/06 at 01:48 AM |
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If you're going to be at donny later this month, assuming I've haven't sold it by then, I'll be there in my Indy Bird if you
fancy a blast on the roads in one. Only as a passenger though!
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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progers
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| posted on 7/9/06 at 07:45 AM |
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I can testify that an R1 BEC is every bit as fast (if not faster) than a blackbird on a track. I race a phoenix R1 (had an MK Indy R1 previously) and
regularly compete against two blackbird engined furys in the same series (RGB).
In a straight line we are almost identical in pulling power but due to the lower weight of the R1 install I can typically outbrake and corner the
heavier blackbird cars. The only advantage of the BB is grunt lower down in the rev range which may make it a better road car.
An R1 with decent exhaust and good cold air intake will easily put out 160bhp+. Mine measure 135bhp RWHp on Powertecs rollers. This was with a new
(stiff) quiaffe diff which has now loosened up.
For bang for buck go R1. If you have a few more pennies go ZX12 as you do get siginifcantly more grunt with these. Budget for a dry sump though.
Hope that helps
Paul
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DIY Si
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| posted on 7/9/06 at 10:35 AM |
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How much heavier is a blackbird install than an R1? There can't be that much in it surely?
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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cossey
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| posted on 7/9/06 at 01:15 PM |
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the R1 is only about 62-65kg whereas from memory the bird is nearer the busa/zx12r at about 85kg. not a huge amount but in a 420kg vs 440kg car then
your talking about the bird needing 167bhp to be equal in power to weight with a 160bhp r1. the stock bikes were only a couple of bhp apart so the
bird in reality isnt going really be any faster.
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progers
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| posted on 7/9/06 at 01:37 PM |
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If you add dry sump into the equation (needed for track work) the BB is typically 30-40kgs more. Thats quite a few burgers :-)
- Paul
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Jubal
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| posted on 7/9/06 at 02:34 PM |
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I'm carrying quite a few burgers myself
R1 may be the best overall compromise. Thanks chaps. What year R1 is best?
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