Alez
|
| posted on 5/5/05 at 02:22 PM |
|
|
Blade sump gasket?
Yesterday, a mechanic told me that the sump of this engine is sealed without a gasket. Can you confirm that? My engine is a '97, and I was told
that earlier models had it but newer didn't, and my one doesn't have one.
Cheers,
Alex
|
|
|
|
|
ChrisGamlin
|
| posted on 5/5/05 at 02:45 PM |
|
|
I think that's technically correct but if you are running a baffle plate then you will need them (two of them) otherwise you're asking for
oil leaks IMHO.
They are all the same shape though, so just buy a couple for an earlier engine.
|
|
|
Alez
|
| posted on 6/5/05 at 07:31 AM |
|
|
Thank you Chris. My engine is leaking oil, I presently don't know where from, drips close to the oil filter, I'll be able to have a look
underneath on monday.
In the meantime I'd like to buy any cheap bits I may need. I don't get the opportunity of lifting my car up often so I need to do as much
as possible in one go.
Would you recommend replacing these two gaskets even if they are not the source of the problem, just to check things as I have the car lifted up
anyway and I need to change oil + oil filter anyway? Or is it better "if it works, don't touch it"? I don't know if the engine
has the gaskets fitted, I only know it has a Stuart Taylor modified (chopped?) sump. Should I use the two gaskets only or do I need to seal the whole
thing with some product as it's done in newer motorbikes?
I've bought an oil filter which is a smaller replacement for the factory one. I think it's a Honda replacement. I've been told
it's as good and as effective. Price is the same. I was recommended it in case my exahust mainfold is different from the factory one (to prevent
fouling). Have you seen these? Is that OK?
I've also bought a drain plug + washer and of course oil. Any other bits?
Cheers,
Alex
|
|
|
ChrisGamlin
|
| posted on 6/5/05 at 09:29 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alez
Thank you Chris. My engine is leaking oil, I presently don't know where from, drips close to the oil filter, I'll be able to have a look
underneath on monday.
In the meantime I'd like to buy any cheap bits I may need. I don't get the opportunity of lifting my car up often so I need to do as much
as possible in one go.
Would you recommend replacing these two gaskets even if they are not the source of the problem, just to check things as I have the car lifted up
anyway and I need to change oil + oil filter anyway? Or is it better "if it works, don't touch it"? I don't know if the engine
has the gaskets fitted, I only know it has a Stuart Taylor modified (chopped?) sump. Should I use the two gaskets only or do I need to seal the whole
thing with some product as it's done in newer motorbikes?
If you have an ST sump then Id asssume you have a baffle plate too. If it isnt leaking from the gasket and there's no other need to drop the
sump then don't bother, just leave it. Generally you don't need to seal the gaskets with any sealant etc, just smear a small amount of oil
on them before offering them up, this helps them seal and stops them sticking to the ally as much (gives you a better chance of taking the sump off in
future without wrecking the gasket).
quote:
I've bought an oil filter which is a smaller replacement for the factory one. I think it's a Honda replacement. I've been told
it's as good and as effective. Price is the same. I was recommended it in case my exahust mainfold is different from the factory one (to prevent
fouling). Have you seen these? Is that OK?
Ive not seen them, generally the bigger the filter the better because they are generally less restrictive, but if its being recommended by someone in
the know then it should be fine Id think.
quote:
I've also bought a drain plug + washer and of course oil. Any other bits?
If you are going to change the oil and drop the sump you might as well get a new seal for the oil pickup pipe, the Honda dealer should know what
you're on about and they are only a few £.
cheers
Chris
[Edited on 6/5/05 by ChrisGamlin]
|
|
|
Alez
|
| posted on 6/5/05 at 12:34 PM |
|
|
> If you have an ST sump then Id asssume you have a baffle plate too
Oops, can you explain what a "baffle plate" is?  Sorry but as it looks like I have it, I bettr know what it is..
> but if its being recommended by someone in the know then it should be fine Id think
They are an official Honda garage and the one recommended by Honda. They know nothing about cars with bike engines in, the rest they should know well.
I believe (from what I've read in this forum) that we BEC riders need to be more careful with oil than bike riders (some engines requiring dry
sump and so on), hence my concern. I bought the small one because the guy said it didn't make ant difference and I though maybe I had a small
one fitted already (my car was not with me for checking at that very moment) and a normal one would foul the mainfold as suggested by the guy.
> If you are going to change the oil and drop the sump you might as well get a new seal for the oil pickup pipe
Thank you very much for the suggestion, I'll do so.
Cheers,
Alex
|
|
|
ChrisGamlin
|
| posted on 6/5/05 at 12:38 PM |
|
|
This is a sump baffle (although hopefully yours wont have the cracks in it!  )
 
Blade Baffle fatigue cracked
It sandwiches itself between the sump and the lower crankcase mating surfaces, hence the need for two gaskets, one either side of the sandwich
"filling"
The filter should be fine by the sounds of it, it wont affect oil surge which is where BECs need to be more careful than bikes.
[Edited on 6/5/05 by ChrisGamlin]
|
|
|
Alez
|
| posted on 6/5/05 at 03:22 PM |
|
|
Many thanks Chris, very helpful indeed.
|
|
|
Alez
|
| posted on 13/5/05 at 02:40 PM |
|
|
> It sandwiches itself between the sump and the lower crankcase mating surfaces, hence the need for two gaskets, one either side of the sandwich
"filling"
Sorry but what's the purpose of putting one of these in the engine?? Days after the explanation of what it is I'm still wondering what it
is for BTW finally my oil leaks were coming from the oil filter and it's all fine now 
Cheers,
Alex
|
|
|
ChrisGamlin
|
| posted on 13/5/05 at 03:26 PM |
|
|
Its a baffle to keep the oil in the bottom of the sump under hard cornering, obviously in the bike its not required because the bike leans therefore
there is no lateral g-forces under cornering slopping the oil away from the oil pickup
|
|
|
Alez
|
| posted on 16/5/05 at 06:50 AM |
|
|
Interesting, thank you!
|
|
|
tks
|
| posted on 16/5/05 at 01:35 PM |
|
|
mhhhhh
at the moment i don't have a kind of baffle plate..
also my sump has an fluid seal...
is it always recommended??
I saw that my oil pickup was straight at the bottom of the sump..
when at max level there is some 8CM of oil..abover it...(i don't have my sump Chopped..)
wil i need one..i don't do trackdays..
TKS
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
|
|
|
ChrisGamlin
|
| posted on 16/5/05 at 02:07 PM |
|
|
To be honest its trial and error with Bike engines and there's no hard and fast rules to determine if it needs one or not. I guess it might be
worth speaking to Ian Gray about the Pan Euro engine, but if you can't find any info from other BEC builders with the same engine I would
recommend taking it easy initially and having a good oil pressure gauge (not light) plumbed in so you can monitor the oil pressure.
|
|
|
tks
|
| posted on 16/5/05 at 08:10 PM |
|
|
mhhh
well thats indeed a good start..
and on top of that,
i fried my oil pressure switch yesterday...
(it connected moving the loom with a live feed)
have you an idea where to find a proportional item??
TKS
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
|
|
|
ChrisGamlin
|
| posted on 16/5/05 at 09:12 PM |
|
|
I personally used the SPA dual digital gauges (until I got a Digidash to go in with the R1 install). They arent cheap but give good accurate oil temp
/ pressure readings plus configurable alarm LEDs for low pressure / high temperature. Having said that, at around £150 they arent too bad considering
two mechanical gauges plus senders and wiring would likely cost you £100 without any of the funky features.
|
|
|
