donut
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| posted on 4/7/06 at 03:43 PM |
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Question for you BEC boys
I had an email from this chap who askes....
i am driving with my Honda Blackbird powered MK.It is a car which has been build by Luc Haselier,the dutch agent for MK sportscars.I only use it for
track days.One thing i would like to ask is, if i only use it for track days the engine has to be dry sumped? One sais yes,the other sais no.The
engine has a baffle plate.Can you give me some advice please?I know that the honda blackbird is a strong engine but i don't know what to do.I
have done six trackdays untill now without any problem and the car is going well.
Your help would be apreciated.
Thanks
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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PAUL FISHER
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| posted on 4/7/06 at 03:59 PM |
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I think if he's done 6 track days,and had no problems,then I would say,he is unlikely to have any oil feed problems,the baffled sump appears to
be doing its job,MK had a problem with a blackbird engine car at brands,and donnington last year,both failures were put down to lubrication,to the big
end bearings,but I don't think either engine was fitted with a baffled sump.
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tks
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| posted on 4/7/06 at 04:18 PM |
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mhh
my opinion isn´t very help full
but it will depend on lateral forces
tyre used?
circuit caracteristics...
i know that zandvoor has some tight corners...
the other circuit i have no idea of.
if i was him i would invest in a good datalogger and just wath the oil pressure..
its the best indicator if revs/oil pressure is good or not enough..
Tks
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 4/7/06 at 04:26 PM |
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As a fellow indy bird owner, I've been looking into this recently. Basically it depends how paranoid you are about blowing up the engine. Some
say the baffled sump is enough. Some same adding an accusump is sufficient. Others use nothing less than a full dry sump system. I wouldn't go
near a track without at least a well baffled sump, and don't personally like the way the accusump works. If I could afford it, I'd go dry
sump, but swmbo won't allow the extra expense so soon after buying the car (only got it on sat!)
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dilley
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| posted on 4/7/06 at 04:35 PM |
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DRY SUMP!!!!!
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Hellfire
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| posted on 4/7/06 at 04:48 PM |
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Buy a good quality oil pressure gauge and find out if you have any problems first. 
Dry sump would be a complete waste of money if it's not needed.
Phil
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 4/7/06 at 10:10 PM |
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Its been fairly well proven that they do go bang when longitudinally mounted and driven on track without a dry sump though, so he'd be daft to
dismiss that IMHO.
As for why it hasnt gone pop yet, maybe he's not particularly fast, or hasnt yet got fully up to speed with the car, maybe he's on
tiawanese ditch finder tyres made of teflon, maybe he hasnt yet found a circuit with a long fast sweep that will induce enough surge to damage it,
maybe he's already had some surge and the bearings are already starting to pick up, who knows.
cheers
Chris
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road warrior
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| posted on 5/7/06 at 12:07 AM |
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Hi DIY Si, what is an accusump and how does it work?
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G.Man
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| posted on 5/7/06 at 04:42 AM |
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Accusump is basically a pressure accumulator that pumps back unused oil into the engine when the oil pickup fails...
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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DIY Si
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| posted on 5/7/06 at 04:29 PM |
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As the man said, it's a tank that holds a pressurised amount of oil to replace any the pick up doesn't recieve. However it won't
stop the pump picking up air bubbles and blowing them through the bearings. Which is the bit I don't like.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 5/7/06 at 06:01 PM |
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Yep, its a half-way house IMHO, not as good as a dry sump.
Having said that, dry sumps arent bulletproof. You shouldnt get damage because of surge as such, but if your drive belt fails you'll just as
quickly lose oil pressure so can blow an engine just as easily. At least this fate is mostly in your own control though, if you install it properly,
ensure the tension etc is correct and keep a regular eye on it for wear, you'd be very unlucky to have an issue assuming you buy an
off-the-shelf solution and don't try anything too pioneering.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 5/7/06 at 09:19 PM |
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Surely the same applies to modern cam belts etc and similar applications? They're about as bomb proof as it gets, unless you could chain drive
the pump some how.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 5/7/06 at 09:52 PM |
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I think the difference is that a car engine with a cam belt is designed from the outset to use a belt, so will be far more reliable than a dry sump
setup that's bolted on as an after-thought, with mods needed to the engine to make it fit at all, and needs bolting to the outside of the main
engine structure rather than being an integral part. Also its probably quite difficult to fully enclose and protect a dry sump belt, so its exposed to
dust / dirt / oil / gravel etc far more than a cam belt ever would be thats partially embedded in an engine and/or under nice plastic covers.
Im not saying they fail all the time, but it certainly happens.
cheers
Chris
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