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Trailers?
mr_pr - 11/2/09 at 08:02 PM

Ok, so I am sure this has been answered but I can never quite get my head around this bit of law.

I only have Cat B on my license. So I believe the following is correct.

In my Land Rover Defender 90 with an unladen weight of 1750Kg I am allowed to tow a trailer with a MAM (Maximum Authorised Mass) of 1750Kg.

However, does this mean I only have 0Kg of load allowed to be put into the 90 before I overstep the 3,500Kg Maximum train weight? Meaning I can't get in to drive?

Also, what sort of MAM would a trailer have that would carry a seven? More specifically my Mac#1?

In short I am trying to work out if I can tow my Mac#1 or will I have to rope my Dad in!

Many Thanks

Benzine - 11/2/09 at 08:11 PM

quote:
Direct.gov


Category B: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM and with up to eight passenger seats

Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.

For example:
a vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.25 tonnes could be driven by the holder of a category B entitlement. This is because the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and also the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle

Whereas
the same vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes when coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.5 tonnes would fall within category B+E. This is because although the combined weight of the vehicle and trailer is within the 3.5 tonnes MAM limit, the MAM of the trailer is more than the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle

mr_pr - 11/2/09 at 08:20 PM

So you agree? I have read the law correctly?

dinosaurjuice - 11/2/09 at 08:29 PM

sorry to hi-jack, but how is the +E entitlement gained?

i hope i dont have to take a driving test AGAIN

Benzine - 11/2/09 at 08:31 PM

You're right it is confusing I think you're right. I have Cat C and I'd like to find out how much I can tow (iirc it's 750kg )

[Edited on 11/2/09 by Benzine]

pewe - 11/2/09 at 09:06 PM

Try googling The Caravan Club or Camping and Caravanning Club - they should have the translated version. Cheers, Pewe

matt_claydon - 11/2/09 at 09:31 PM

Edit: Original info was wrong, see posts below!

Remeber the limit is the MAM as stamped on the trailer, not the mass you've actually got on it. If you didn't get B+E when you got your licence, you have to take a small extra test which involves demonstrating ability to drive safely and manoevre with a trailer.

Contact your local DSA office (test centre) for info.


[Edited on 11/2/09 by matt_claydon]

mr_pr - 11/2/09 at 09:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by matt_claydon
With Cat B you can only tow 750kg MAM. Remeber the limit is the MAM as stamped on the trailer, not the mass you've actually got on it. If you didn't get B+E when you got your licence, you have to take a small extra test which involves demonstrating ability to drive safely and manoevre with a trailer.

Contact your local DSA office (test centre) for info.


I know I asked in the first place but I disagree with that now. Especially after reading lots and lots on the internet!

quote:

Direct.gov


Category B: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM and with up to eight passenger seats

Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.

For example:
a vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.25 tonnes could be driven by the holder of a category B entitlement. This is because the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and also the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle

Whereas
the same vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes when coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.5 tonnes would fall within category B+E. This is because although the combined weight of the vehicle and trailer is within the 3.5 tonnes MAM limit, the MAM of the trailer is more than the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle

matt_claydon - 11/2/09 at 10:02 PM

Sorry, yes, you are right - I'd forgotten about that little extra bit. Not sure how many trailers there are with a MAM that falls in that window though.

You cannot tow a 1750 MAM trailer with a 1750 unladen tug, as the 3500 limit applies to the MAM of the trailer + the MAM of the tug. (The MAM of a vehicle which is 1750 unladen will be more like 2500 putting your overall MAM at 4250.)


[Edited on 11/2/09 by matt_claydon]

dhutch - 11/2/09 at 10:09 PM

quote:
Originally posted by matt_claydon
With Cat B you can only tow 750kg MAM. Remeber the limit is the MAM as stamped on the trailer, not the mass you've actually got on it. If you didn't get B+E when you got your licence, you have to take a small extra test which involves demonstrating ability to drive safely and manoevre with a trailer.

I dont belive your right there (your bold).
- You are right in saying the MAM is the max allowable mass (weight of trialer plus max weight it can hold, ie, stamped max gross weight), rather then the weight it is at the time (weight of trailer plus kitcar).

Im also in the situation where i havea cat B only, and having dug enough digging that i recon to go through the test to get B+E would take a full day and about £250, i was keen to look at it closely.
- Thats on the assmuption, the becuase ive actaully tow a lot, i can tow, so just need a days lessons, and to take the test.
- Done forget that if you then get a catD, your automaticaly get a D+E if you have the E, in otherwords you can drive ruddy loads. So to make it fit, the test is (apprently) basicaly a cut down HGV test.

As far as imaware the OP is right is so much as the MAM of the trailer, cant exceed the curb weight of the tow car.
- But the 3500kg limit does not use the curb weight of the car.
- The only full peice i dont know, is what weight is does use. Instead i beleave (and this is the bit im least sure on) its the max gross weight of the car (ie, the cars MAM) which might just be where you come unstuck.
- And that value also has to be under the max gross train wieght that the car is rated for too. Which you will find on a plate on the car somewhere.



Im towing with a Pug306, towing a small 13ft covered trailer with a westfeild in it.
- The curb weight of the car is 1115kg
- The unlaiden weight of the trailer is 580kg
- And the as-loaded weight of the car is 540kg

Peugoet have rated the cars breaked towing limit at 1200kg.

And what i have done is whacked a makers plate on the trailer (£3 of ebay) that states a MAM of 1200kg. (trailers a diy build i bought 2nd hand).

And then ive got a sway bar for it, and fitted the nessary lights for a wide trailer (pair of front markers for £6) and then ive just got on with it.


So in summary, im very close (if not on) the line. But with a far more suitable tow car, you might just be the other side.
- What you then do with that is slightly upto you.


Daniel

serieslandy - 11/2/09 at 10:15 PM

Wow, I think I am more confused then when I started reading the post. I think its best to take the + E to be on the safe side. (or chance it).

I tired to get an answer from the DVLA a while back and rang them up. The woman on the end of the line didn't have a clue and just read what was on the website.

Dangle_kt - 11/2/09 at 10:25 PM

My volvo weighs 1500kg, so that means as long as the trailer I have is braked I can tow up to 2000kgs to reach the maximum 3500kg limit, but becuase it cant exceed thw weight of the car I can only actually tow 1500kgs.

My trailer is a home made jobby with no plate - so the police would have to take me to a weigh bridge (as without a MAM plate they have to weigh me to see if I'm legal)

Now the car is about 500kg (probably a bit less) and the trailer is no more than 300kgs, so I have quite a bit of room to play with.

I plan on doing my e test at some point, but it has to be taken with a BOX trailer so you can;t use your centre mirror for some stupid reason, and I dont yet own a box trailer.

Daft!

GregSL75 - 11/2/09 at 10:29 PM

I think you only need a box trailer if you use a post 2001 tow car..

More stupid rules..

mark chandler - 11/2/09 at 11:01 PM

- The unlaiden weight of the trailer is 580kg

Thats a very heavy trailer, is it a Ivor williams 4 wheel plant trailer ???

Start off with something lighter than the car, you should be able to make a suitable trailer @ around 250kg max

FEZ1025 - 11/2/09 at 11:52 PM

Or buy an A-frame as long as the combined weight of the car & A-frame is less than 750Kgs you're clear on all accounts.

Alan...

dhutch - 11/2/09 at 11:56 PM

As i say, its a covered trailer, with solid floor and full width tailgate.
- The main reason i have it is as a place to keep the car under cover while at uni without a garage.

Im sure half the forum must have seen this photo now!



Daniel

speedyxjs - 12/2/09 at 07:16 AM

Iv been looking into this and i read it that anyone who passed his/her driving test after 97 had to take a B+E test to tow any trailer that weighs more than 750kg. If, as this tread is leading me to beleive, i can to a trailer that combined with the tow car, does not exceed 3500kg, then i can tow a trailer up to 1700kg.
Have i understood this correct?

mr_pr - 12/2/09 at 07:44 AM

I think we have got it down to the following.

Without a +E entitlement you can:

Tow a Trailer with MAM of 750Kg. As long as the Gross Weight of the train (MAM of tractor + MAM of trailer) does not exceed 4250Kg

or

Tow a trailer whose MAM does not exceed the Unladen weight of the tractor vehicle. As long as the Gross Weight of the train (Tractor MAM + Trailer MAM) does not exceed 3500Kg.

dhutch - 12/2/09 at 05:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mr_pr
I think we have got it down to the following.

Without a +E entitlement you can:

Tow a Trailer with MAM of 750Kg. As long as the Gross Weight of the train (MAM of tractor + MAM of trailer) does not exceed 4250Kg (3500+750=4250)

or

Tow a trailer whose MAM does not exceed the Unladen weight of the tractor vehicle. As long as the Gross Weight of the train (Tractor MAM + Trailer MAM) does not exceed 3500Kg.


Yes, that is as i see it.
- Only addition being, that the gross train wieght (but not i think, the gross MAM) must also i beleive fit with the car manufactors rated gross train wieght. Which as said will be stampted on a plate on the car somewhere.


Daniel