Does this sound correct?
Also how does this work for MOT? How can you tell the age of the car on a Q plate - ie for emmisions purposes?
Cheers
Daz
I am in the process of purchasing a "75%" built Tiger Avon, it has a Zetec 2.0 engine with throttle bodies and as far as I am aware no cat
in the exhaust. The seller has stated that its registered on a Q plate so no SVA needed?
Does this sound correct?
Also how does this work for MOT? How can you tell the age of the car on a Q plate - ie for emmisions purposes?
Cheers
Daz
I've been told that Q plate cars are visible smoke only at MOT. I've not MOTed a Q plate car myself so I can't guarantee it.
I've heard that recently registered SVAed cars with '98 or newer engines have cat test data printed on the V5 so might need a cat for MOT.
I don't know.
how can it by 75% built if at all ready have a q plate ?
something not right there if it already has a Q plate and is only 75% be carefully.
[Edited on 31/8/06 by Aboardman]
If it was already built and registered on a Q before SVA came in, he's right... so he then unbuilt 25% of it????
Sounds like he is misinformed or trying to pass on something not very good.
I have yet to have my first MOT, but my car is on a Q and there are no emissions details on the V5, so I assume they will have to do just visible
smoke test... hmm, must get rid of the cat, then!
If it's already registered on a Q plate, has never been SVA'd and isn't finished, then something is VERY wrong!
If it isn't finished then it cannot be properly registered - is he claiming that you can use the existing donor registration? (you can't)
You will have to check the exact build date of the engine to see whether you need a cat.
As for emissions, the level of emissions testing at SVA will rely on the age of the engine. At the MOT (at the moment) cars with Q plates only need to
be tested for visible smoke. There are very strong rumours that this will change, so that you will need to meet whatever standards you had to achieve
at the SVA.
Whole point of a Q plate is to indicate inderterminate age. Thus the reason Q plates only get a visible smoke test.
I agree with the others, be careful, how can it be registered as a Q if it hasn't passed SVA? Has he taken the reg from a kit he's
scrapped? If so it'll be registered as something else and is effectively a ringer which may get crushed if an eagle eyed MOT tester spots the
inconsistency.
To be honest it is never going to be on the road in my ownership anyway, Its going to be an out & out track car. My plan was to finish building it
/ unbuild it and rebuild it so that I could SVA /MOT it when the time comes. I will find out more info, although I will have plenty of time sort it
out over the winter. It is possible it was built a long time ago and it is just being refurbished but looking at it, there cant be
"original" parts left.
Daz
quote:
As for emissions, the level of emissions testing at SVA will rely on the age of the engine. At the MOT (at the moment) cars with Q plates only need to be tested for visible smoke. There are very strong rumours that this will change, so that you will need to meet whatever standards you had to achieve at the SVA.
quote:
Originally posted by iank
Whole point of a Q plate is to indicate inderterminate age. Thus the reason Q plates only get a visible smoke test.
I agree with the others, be careful, how can it be registered as a Q if it hasn't passed SVA? Has he taken the reg from a kit he's scrapped? If so it'll be registered as something else and is effectively a ringer which may get crushed if an eagle eyed MOT tester spots the inconsistency.
Mines on a Q plate and had it MOT'd last month. Only did a visible check for smoke, no emission tests.
If it's using the parts from the old car it's no different to a lot of other cars. If you wrote off an Indy then rebuilt it with a different
chassis and engine would it need SVA or just a change of engine notification? If you call the Avon chassis a Tiger Cat I doubt an MOT station will
know the difference. If you buy it it's up to you whether you use the old documents or register it again anyway isn't it?
[Edited on 31/8/06 by Peteff]
My car SVA'd april this year with a 98 engine required a cat to be fitted and had to pass the latest emissions to pass SVA even though it was going on a Q plate.The logbook lists the emissions on it.I have been told that cars with a Q plate with a pre 95 engine is visible smoke and cars recently SVA 'd with post 95 engine will have to meet emissions that is printed on logbook since with the new computerised MoT's it will come up with what emissions the car as to meet.Maybe wrong though.
quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
If it's using the parts from the old car it's no different to a lot of other cars. If you wrote off an Indy then rebuilt it with a different chassis and engine would it need SVA or just a change of engine notification?..............
[Edited on 31/8/06 by Peteff]
With regard to emissions at MOT;
MOT Emissions Testing
The MOT tester will take the age of the vehicle from the registration plate and also assume that this is the date on which it was first used.
A - If your car has an AGE-RELATED plate he’ll assume that the engine is the same age as the plate and do the test accordingly. However, if your
age-related plate refers to pre-Aug 1998 (‘S’ Prefix) you will continue to get the visible smoke test for the life of the vehicle REGARDLESS of the
age of the engine. Remember though that this does NOT include PERSONALISED plates as in this case the vehicle will continue to be tested according
to its age and NOT the vehicle registration number.
B - If your vehicle has a CURRENT/NEW plate or one that is after 1st August 1998, you will get a ‘basic’ emissions test, which is a basic check
conducted to set limits carried out BEFORE the ‘CAT’ test. If you pass, GREAT. If you fail though you’ll be subject to a full ‘by-the-book’ CAT test,
plus remember that if you fail this you’ll also fail the MOT. Of course there are plenty of CURRENT/NEW registered kits running around with
reconditioned engines so in this instance you will have to prove the age of the engine to the MOT tester. Ideally you should have a copy of your SVA
MAC ‘pass’ certificate, which will be sufficient. Otherwise you will have to get a letter from the engines manufacturer stating clearly what year the
engine was made.
C - Cars with a ‘Q’ plate are regarded as being of uncertain age so therefore will continue to be subject to the visible smoke test.
Phil
[Edited on 31-8-06 by Hellfire]
Agree in full with Phil with regard to the Mot if registered on a Q plate age is irrelevant & emissions are not checked whatever is printed on the
V5. Whether it is VOSA's intention to change this in the future however & hence the data being included on the V5
.......................
Re Sva, any substantial change to the vehicular structure requires Sva testing, hence things like the Z cars mini conversions need Sva even tho it
still looks like a Mini. If you rebuild a Tiger with, for instance, an MK chassis, thats like rebuilding a mini with a Peugeot bodyshell &
would definitely require Sva - if you chose to "ring" the registration onto the other chassis, as many people have done with old Dutton
registrations to avoid Sva, if it's a similar "7 type" vehicle you'd probably get away with it as hardly anyone would know one
chassis from another as long as the chassis no. was correct, however it's not worth the risk as people with Lotus 7 Duttons are finding to their
cost. & Yes they most certainly can crush your pride & joy if you've been this silly & get caught.
quote:
Originally posted by russbost
Agree in full with Phil with regard to the Mot if registered on a Q plate age is irrelevant & emissions are not checked whatever is printed on the V5.
Does that mean i can safely get rid of my Cat then ?
andrew.carwithen - 31/8/06 at 08:17 PMquote:
Originally posted by Peteff
.... If you call the Avon chassis a Tiger Cat I doubt an MOT station will know the difference. If you buy it it's up to you whether you use the old documents or register it again anyway isn't it?
[Edited on 31/8/06 by Peteff]
The point is, that judging by his posts, it seems the original poster is unaware that there is a second vehicle involved in passing its ID onto the Avon. He seemed to think that it was the Avon itself that had sometime in its history been subject to a 'rebuild'. Which is not the case. The Avon is a new build!
Therefore, If he isn't aware of all the facts, how can he make a judgement on whether he should avoid the SVA or not?
Big Daz - 31/8/06 at 08:41 PM
Yes, you can ignore the current registration altogether and get it SVA'd with a new chassis number.
Phil
i think that whoever is selling it is being incredibly naive and foolish trying to sell it halfway through this process. Its very common really, that
when someone trashes their car they build a new one and transfer the details over, however, you shouldnt advertise the fact! And if it did become
common knowledge, you would maintain at least some semelence that it was the original car being rebuilt with a new chassis, not a similar new build.
He's asking for a major headache.
[Edited on 31/8/06 by JoelP]
Personally, I would say yes it could be a problem.
Phil
You might avoid getting prosecuted by the courts if you bought it in good faith, but the car would still be crushed as a ringer.
p.s. there is at least one SVA tester (i.e. VOSA employee who reads this forum...)
[Edited on 31/8/06 by iank]
quote:
Originally posted by dilley
In what respect? surley it wouldnt come down to me as I bought it ready registered?
Thanks for the info
quote:
Originally posted by russbost
Agree in full with Phil with regard to the Mot if registered on a Q plate age is irrelevant & emissions are not checked whatever is printed on the V5. Whether it is VOSA's intention to change this in the future however & hence the data being included on the V5 .......................
Seems to be a wide variety of results depending upon the whim of vosa. Mine was mot'd as a 1980 year car, and had the emissions for that year. Nowt to do with the 1998 bird engine at all. Also, if the limits are imposed, why bother with Q plates for sva passes? And what about pre 73 cars? If my mini were any younger it'd never get passed! Yet I could fit a newer engine and still have visual smoke.
"whim of VOSA"
You are spot on.
I am very disillusioned at the total lack of uniformity in testing across the UK. And that's aimed directly at any SVA tester/VOSA employees
reading this. If there was a VOSA message board, or if some of them would answer questions with authuority on here, surely that would be the way
forward.
The differing rules, moving goalposts and general cluelessness of the testers (I was once told that because my windowless BEC didn't have
windscreen wipers it was an MOT fail!) has driven me to distraction plenty of times (and will again, no doubt).
RANT OVER
Normal service is now resumed 
Cheers
Ali
That seems more than a bit dodgy to me. Might be being think but I don't see how a new chassis and what very much looks like all new parts could possibly retain the reg? As said here, you could probably get away with a re-chassis, as you can re-shell some cars (ie mini), but that appears to be going a big step over the "legal" limit.