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Just curious...
StevieB - 28/5/07 at 07:17 PM

If you bought an old kit car (just old and hagged, not written off!) and used some of the parts, could you then forego SVA (like you do when you turn a beetle into a beach buggy)?

It's just something that I've always wondered, and the subject has sort of cropped up a few times on here (mainly to do with a certain Indy that's currently on Ebay - again!).

StevieB - 28/5/07 at 07:24 PM

I think it's not quite as clear cut in the legality either - people crash their kit cars and repair them. Usually, they replace the chassis and the bodywork, and upgrade other parts too while they're at it, so effectively, they get a new car using the old one as a donor. Then they don't do another SVA.

If the kit you originally bought is no longer available, you'd have to go to something aftermarket for the chassis - see what I'm getting at?

Catpuss - 28/5/07 at 07:37 PM

Its worth checking the SVA rules. I think there is something about replacing the chassis with the same manufaturers (or OEM spec ). I think in that case its supposed to be OK, i.e. MK Indy with new MK Indy chassis (Perhaps Hellfire is about as he did it), but I expect replacing say and MK Indy chassis with an GTS Panther would require an SVA.

Unfortunatly the DVLA website is down at the moment.

I think the beetle to buggy is non SVA as you use the original floor pan of the chassis so you are still retaining the beetle "structure".

graememk - 28/5/07 at 08:33 PM

beetle to buggy needs sva as normally they sorten the floor pan, if its kept long you dont need sva.

blakep82 - 28/5/07 at 09:34 PM

surely it would be taken more as a restoration? thereofre no SVA?

StevieB - 28/5/07 at 09:36 PM

And you could therefore make the same argument about a se7en type car.

It's one of those things where there seems to be a lot of opinion and assumption - if I bought on old Westfield and a Westfield starter kit and put all the running gear in the new chassis, technically I should SVA, but I probably wouldn't be required to.

iank - 29/5/07 at 10:09 AM

quote:
Originally posted by StevieB
And you could therefore make the same argument about a se7en type car.

It's one of those things where there seems to be a lot of opinion and assumption - if I bought on old Westfield and a Westfield starter kit and put all the running gear in the new chassis, technically I should SVA, but I probably wouldn't be required to.


Depends on whether the chassis was the same spec or not. Probably couldn't do it with a pre-lit, but westfield should be able to supply a correct spec chassis for making a repair, so no SVA would be required. Building a wide car from a narrow donor (or vice versa) would require SVA as you say.

For the beetle based kit, if you replaced the chassis with a new beetle one of the correct spec it would be treated as a repair. You could then change the body for what you wanted However fitting the parts into a spaceframe would require an SVA.

Of course many people get away with all sorts of nonsense as it's down to the MOT man to make the call. Presented with a MK Indy on the V5 would he really be able to tell the car was actually GTS? 99.9% wouldn't know. I doubt above 10% of this forum who haven't built their own an Indy would catch it to be honest.

StevieB - 29/5/07 at 05:03 PM

That's what I thought - even if it was an Indy underneath, I could have put any bodywork on it that I wanted to.

There just seems to be a big grey area that could be reasonably exploited without breaking the law.

As for changing the bofywork/chassis of any car, that would mean all the lads who chop and change their citroen saxo's would have to do an SVA too - it's the same principle.

iank - 29/5/07 at 05:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by StevieB
...
As for changing the bofywork/chassis of any car, that would mean all the lads who chop and change their citroen saxo's would have to do an SVA too - it's the same principle.


Depends (doesn't it always ) you need to do an SVA only if you 'significantly alter the chassis' or some such wording on the DVLA site. Adding a spoiler or two and some wide wings won't change the structural stiffness so is 'probably' fine. Cutting out the boot and putting a bike engine in, or making a RWD by adding a tunnel and 5 link rear end will need an SVA in my reading of 'significant'.

There is a large grey area in between which can save you money and effort or gain you legal strife depending on how the wind blows, and probably if you ever have the misfortune to be involved in a fatal accident.

A classic example would be fitting an aftermarket sunroof in a mini, is that significant? It's a monocoque and chopping a 2.5ft x 1ft hole in the roof will affect the stiffness of the structure a bit, but is it a significant 'a bit'?
Wide open to interpretation.

StevieB - 29/5/07 at 05:22 PM

The main reason I was curious is because I nearly bought an old Westfield with a competition engine and running gear, but the chassis was rusted to bits and the bodywork was faded to nnearly the plain GRP and a bit brittle in places - it was £1750.

My plan had been to buy it, take all the running gear and good bits out (such as the carbon race seats as it had been a race winning car and was suitably equipped with cool stuff) and buy a Westy live axle starter kit and put everything back in and stick the plates back on.

To me, that would have been a refurb of the original car by replacing the goosed parts with new. It just so happened that the parts were the bodywork and chassis.

Then I got thinking and wondered if the same would have applied if I bought an old Dutton and it became an Indy.

[Edited on 29/5/07 by StevieB]

flak monkey - 29/5/07 at 05:22 PM

The zcars minis never used to need SVAing, though I think they do now.

iank - 29/5/07 at 05:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
The zcars minis never used to need SVAing, though I think they do now.


I read somewhere that those Banham cars based on a cut down metro or skoda lead to a crackdown. He used to say you didn't need an sva depite chopping 60% of the car off, dvla disagreed and forced SVA, which most promptly failed. I suspect Z-cars got a letter as well.

Indeed checking on the dvla site shows harsher wording than I remember last time I looked.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingAVehicle/RegisteringAVehicle/DG_10014199
Shows any 'alteration to a monocoque requires an SVA and a Q under radically altered vehicles.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingAVehicle/RegisteringAVehicle/DG_10014246
Is littered with 'unaltered monocoque bodyshell' wording for rebuilt and kit conversion.

Peteff - 29/5/07 at 06:31 PM

Then I got thinking and wondered if the same would have applied if I bought an old Dutton and it became an Indy.

The Westfield was a goer, you could do that legitimately but the Dutton would be dubious as the only "part" you would be using would be the V5 but it has "probably" been done.