hugo_wilson
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| posted on 19/5/10 at 10:52 PM |
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Failed IVA, could do with advice
So it was always gonna be a long shot but i failed on a number of things, some rounds and some miss positioned tell tail lights etc
however the things i need help on:
noise was 100.8 ave. can anyone suggest a minor alteration to reduce it by that magic 1.8 db
emissions; hydrocarbons way too high and co2 on the either on or above, ive done this on the cheap so its the 1.6 pinto with the standard weber carb,
i dont want to pay for a trailer again so anyone got any ideas about tuners who will come to me
i also failed because calculated weight on the rear axle came out higher than the design weight i put on the form and now my tester wants me to go to
a weighbridge and get a certificate with new design weights under full loading, i was a little confused if im honest i dont know why he would not
simply let me put down the new number on the form, but either way, is there any way of getting someone to bring the equipment to me for weighing.
all advice really appreciated, budget has run out on this one and i really want it on the road
cheers
Hugo
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YQUSTA
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| posted on 19/5/10 at 11:02 PM |
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I can't help with your problem but if you put your location in your profile people may be just round the corner and be able to help or point you
in the right direction.
Welcome to the forum and don't get to wound up i'm sure it can be sorted soon enough
"If in doubt flat out"
Colin McRae
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hugo_wilson
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| posted on 19/5/10 at 11:07 PM |
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Have done, North london, cheers
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 20/5/10 at 12:12 AM |
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Presumably you could clean up the emissions by leaning out the engine but with a Pinto wouldn't it be visual check only with the age of that
engine
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Hellfire
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| posted on 20/5/10 at 12:16 AM |
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Regarding design weight - Chris would have included that in the Book. Did you not complete the form correctly - if this is the case then surely you
would be able to represent the Car with evidence that you mis-completed the Form and take evidence (The Book) with you.
As Norfolkluego says about emissions.... pre 1993 IIRC visual only.
Steve
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 20/5/10 at 06:12 AM |
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You dont say what engine you have (bike or car) or what engine setup (fe or carbs) or what silencer you have (bike or car).
All these have their own 'fixes'.
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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adithorp
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| posted on 20/5/10 at 06:44 AM |
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Noise... Bigger/different silencer or a DB killer up the tale pipe. What silencer is on it now?
Emmisions... What were the readings? HC max on pre '95 engines is 1200ppm and that needs an engine to be running pretty poorly to be over. You
need to get it setup properly.
What weight did you put on the form? I don't think you'll find a mobile weigh bridge.
In theory, you can drive to a "place of repair" now you have a fail.
adrian
ps. welcome to the forum and congratulations on getting as far as IVA without posting on here before.
[Edited on 20/5/10 by adithorp]
[Edited on 20/5/10 by adithorp]
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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Steve Hignett
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| posted on 20/5/10 at 06:50 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by speedyxjs
You dont say what engine you have (bike or car) or what engine setup (fe or carbs) or what silencer you have (bike or car).
All these have their own 'fixes'.
You mean apart from the bit where he clearly states:- "its the 1.6 pinto with the standard weber carb"???????????
Hugo, do you have a friendly local MOT test place anywhere near you?
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mcerd1
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| posted on 20/5/10 at 07:07 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
As Norfolkluego says about emissions.... pre 1993 IIRC visual only.
no you need to be be pre 1975 for a visual smoke test only - so most pintos will need a metered test
HC <= 1200 ppm
CO <= 3.5%
(CO <= 4.5% for 1975-1986)
look in the SVA or IVA manual for the test levels and the burton cataloge will give you engine age using the first 2 digits of the engine number
linky
[Edited on 20/5/2010 by mcerd1]
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40inches
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| posted on 20/5/10 at 07:14 AM |
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As said, you can now drive the car to somewhere to have the problems rectified, you must pre book, use the opportunity to give the car a good shake
down.
You can insure it on the VIN number, if you haven't already done so
Would be a shame if the nearest weigh bridge was 50 miles away, wouldn't it?
[Edited on 20-5-10 by 40inches]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 20/5/10 at 07:19 AM |
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At my SVA the 'visual smoke' bit only applied to pre 1st Aug 1975 engines - I don't know if they've changed that date for IVA.
Even my 30-year-old x-flow had to meet emission standards at its SVA, albeit fairly relaxed ones.
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bigpig
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| posted on 20/5/10 at 07:51 AM |
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The DB killers with the triangle pressed sections work well but *really* restrict the air flow. I tried one of those with just a pipe that goes
through a plate, but it made no difference at all on my pinto engine.
Another alternative is an insert disc with quaters bent out, sort of like:
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With the top left quater and bottom right cut along the mid line then folded 90 degrees out. My R1 and can came with one of these in front of the cat.
Made no difference to my car. in the end I put a GBS exhaust can half way down the pipe as a mid box (with an R1 end can as the final stage), which
seems to be getting it down to about 90dba. On the GBS can alone it was 106dba.
There are also mobile tuning places that will come out and tune carbs for you.
From what you have said and others, it sounds like the form was incorrectly filled in? If that's true, as mentioned, you just need evidence of a
clerical error rather than build error.
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PeteS2k
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| posted on 20/5/10 at 08:06 AM |
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Watch-point with a dB killer of any sort near the tail-pipe is that they will still want to be able to stuff the emissions probe well up the
tail-pipe. Any solution you use needs to allow this.
I used a suitably sized Jetex dB insert wrapped in steel wool right at the back of the perforated tubel in the can. This just effectively reduces the
diameter of the outlet.
I also stuck a baffle further up the perforated tube - just a steel bracket with a big (approx 40mm) washer bolted to it - 2 1/2 inch system.
This got my noise down from 105 to 98.6. I don't know which bit did what though. I had a big step to make up, so went for a bit of a brute force
approach!
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 20/5/10 at 08:28 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Hignett
quote:
Originally posted by speedyxjs
You dont say what engine you have (bike or car) or what engine setup (fe or carbs) or what silencer you have (bike or car).
All these have their own 'fixes'.
You mean apart from the bit where he clearly states:- "its the 1.6 pinto with the standard weber carb"???????????
Oh yeah, missed that
Note to self - NEED MORE COFFEE IN THE MORNING!
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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Lightning
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| posted on 20/5/10 at 08:42 AM |
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Re: design weights: My actual weight was 13kg heavier than design weight which throws up all red sectors on thier brake calculations. This was
probably due to my extra car battery etc for the reverse gear. I have just got a letter from Spire(in my case) making the design weight sligtly more
than the calculated weight. Sorted.
I am trying the segment idea on my silencers with the packing material in the pipe as well. Managed to make discs that can be pushed up the perforated
tube held in place with wire from wire coat hangers that fit exactlyin the holes of the perforations. With a dB meter so far managed to get down 2dB
with dBkiller. hopefully the discs will help even more. not finished them yet.
[Edited on 20/5/10 by Lightning]
Steve
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BenB
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| posted on 20/5/10 at 08:44 AM |
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When my emissions were up the swanny at the first test I used some Colortunes to set the mixture and it worked very nicely. In fact when I took it to
a RR they said it was 95% spot-on and just had a slight tweek on one needle.
Unfortuanately my colortune is for a bike engine otherwise you'ld be more than welcome to borrow it as I'm literally just round the corner
in HGS (car's tucked away awaiting some time to take it for an MOT to get it back on the road again in W.Hampstead).
For the axle weights I'd just say it was a clerical error and see if they'll let you change it on the form. Going to a weighbridge sounds
a PITA.
Don't forget re the dB killers that if you start sticking stuff up the exhaust it will mean you might have to re-tune the engine after taking it
out again  Some people get significant dB drops by sound-proofing the engine bay. The noise the car makes isn't always coming just out of the
exhaust pipe....
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02GF74
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| posted on 20/5/10 at 08:46 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
In theory, you can drive to a "place of repair" now you have a fail.
Is that really correct?
For SVA you can only drive back from SVA and that was it - you couldn't even drive for DVLA inspection, and the next time you could drive was to
a prearranged SVA retest.
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 20/5/10 at 08:51 AM |
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my tester described the rule as "you may drive to and from a place of statutory test aslong as you have a pre-booked appointment"
Craig
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hugo_wilson
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| posted on 20/5/10 at 09:15 AM |
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So are people sure i can drive after an iva fail as long as i have pre booked appointments and insurance this would make life cheaper.
emissions need to sit at sub 1200 hc and sub 3.5 for co2, mine came back really bad at 1964 and 3.5 on the dot its running really rich but i could
sorta smell that already, mobile tuning would sort this tho?
i said exactly what you are all saying about design weights to my tester but he was adamant that i need proof of weight. it is a PITA, is there anyway
i can go around him when i get back. showing the book wont necessary work as it show 450 and my calculated second axle was 493
My exhaust is a sealed (welded) system with a 90deg turn on the end (makeitdrive.blogspot.com for pics) i dunno what i can do to jam something up
there, i got the exhaust from kit parts direct, it seems that the difference is so small on this especially as it was a dry day and there was a lorry
running on the for court thats what im blaming lol
any more suggestions would be great, cheers for all of this advice
Hugo
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adithorp
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| posted on 20/5/10 at 10:13 AM |
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You can drive to and from a required test (MOT or IVA) and to and from a place of repair for rectification of faults required for the test. The
vehicle must be insured and the journey should be reasonable (ie. don't set off to Carlisle and try using it as an excuse).
adrian
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 20/5/10 at 11:41 AM |
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Re Emissions.
As long as the idle mixture is set correctly, and the revs, new plugs and points(?), timing right. If all that is done, and the emissions are still
high, then try this. It works.
Empty the fuel tank. Put in 4 parts cheap thinner/gunwash(from car paint suppliers, don't tell them what it's for), two parts methylated
spirits, and two parts unleaded.
That brew WILL bugger up most rubber diaphragms in fuel pumps, so you'll need a facet electronic.
The outcome will be emissions down by huge amounts, due to the thinner/meths. As soon as the test is over, fill up with pump fuel.
If that lot doesn't work, then you need a new engine or carb.
Cheers,
nev.
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 20/5/10 at 01:37 PM |
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On the back of the SVA form it explained that you could drive the car legally to get faults fixed.
It is the greatest loop-hole of all time!
I assume the back of the IVA says the same.
Regarding other items.
1) Pack the exhaust, or replace your silencer with something that actually silences. Do this before item 2. You can get a cheap gauge from
Maplin.
2) AFTER you have dealt with the exhaust. If you don't know how to sort your carbs out, then go to a local garage (with an old guy in it), and
they will have the kit to do this.
3) Design weights. Get it weighed on the way back from the above carb setting trip.
Sounds like an afternoons effort.
Matt
p.s. welcome to the forum
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 20/5/10 at 01:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by matt_gsxr
1) Pack the exhaust, or replace your silencer with something that actually silences. Do this before item 2. You can get a cheap gauge from
Maplin.
Or consider a silencer from a common tin-top - restrictive, but will knock the volume right down. Might need a re-tune later
though.
2) AFTER you have dealt with the exhaust. If you don't know how to sort your carbs out, then go to a local garage (with an old guy in it), and
they will have the kit to do this.
My old Weber needed an overhaul kit as most of the rubber bits were shot. Not a tough job, but if you're stuck for time then said
'old guy' can advise - shouldn't be too expensive.
3) Design weights. Get it weighed on the way back from the above carb setting trip.
Check in yellow pages for weighbridges - I found one 3 miles from home, in the yard of an animal feedstuffs supplier.
p.s. welcome to the forum
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bigpig
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| posted on 24/5/10 at 05:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by hugo_wilson
i said exactly what you are all saying about design weights to my tester but he was adamant that i need proof of weight. it is a PITA, is there anyway
i can go around him when i get back. showing the book wont necessary work as it show 450 and my calculated second axle was 493
My exhaust is a sealed (welded) system with a 90deg turn on the end (makeitdrive.blogspot.com for pics) i dunno what i can do to jam something up
there, i got the exhaust from kit parts direct, it seems that the difference is so small on this especially as it was a dry day and there was a lorry
running on the for court thats what im blaming lol
Would setting up the suspension properly shift weight from the rear forwards and take the weight off the rear?
The kit parts direct exhaust is rather loud. They suggested to me an insert before the intake with a washer as a flow restrictor. To get that to work
on mine, it would barely even get above 3K rpm.
In the end I chopped the 90 degree bend off, poked the db insert up the can then welded it back on. It was a bit poo still, so:
I chopped off the 90 degree bend again
chopped a load off the front of the intake pipe to shorten it
put the end can on as a mid box
put an R1 end can on after the kit parts direct end can and riveted the 90 degree bend inside the R1 can outlet.
It looks kind of odd, starts well and is still revs quite well. Sound levels seem really good, I just need to make an exhaust shield up.
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hugo_wilson
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| posted on 10/6/10 at 11:58 AM |
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So emissions are sorted, schoolboy error!! I had not plugged the servo assist pipe from the engine after i removed it. Had it on the emissions testing
machine when I spotted it and when i plugged it with my finger they levelled out to the correct values almost without tuning. So stupid of me 
Got it weighed and it looks like the calculated weights are off on the other axle now, v strange, we'll see what he says when i get to the
centre. Noise still an issue, cheers fir the suggestions tho.
Hugo
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