macnab
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 posted on 12/2/07 at 02:14 PM |
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SVA mad rules
Sorry for sounding even dumber than usual, I had noticed this SVA issue in previous post but just reckoned I had misread them.
So lets see if I have got this even slightly straight…
I can take my car to the SVA test center but if it’s an age related car it does need the emissions tested, but if its age related why does it need SVA
tested at all? As its surely then considered a rebodied vehicle like my vw beetle based buggy which only needs an MOT.
If the car is not built from one donor then it needs an SVA test and would be issued a Q plate (are not all kit cars, bar new or age related not Q
plates? Isn’t that for vehicles if undetermined age?) As for it to be considered for a new age related plate i.e. a new car, it should be virtually
all new parts apart from one major item.
So why is a Q plate now emission exempt?
What have I got wrong here???
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BenB
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| posted on 12/2/07 at 02:19 PM |
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It's simple (I think)- the requirements for SVA and MOT are different. The SVA requirements are based solely on the age of the engine. At MOT,
the requirements depend upon the age of the car.
IE Q plate (unknown, presumed <1974), no emissions
Anything else (whether new or age-related) dependant upon the current thresholds for cars of that age.
So the best situation is if you have fairly new engine, pass the emissions @ SVA then get a Q plate. Then you never have to worry about emissions
again 
[Edited on 12/2/07 by BenB]
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macnab
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| posted on 12/2/07 at 02:37 PM |
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hmm that almost answers my question which was not really about passing the emissions but what is an age related car doing getting an SVA test. It as
far as I'm aware doesn't need one, just an MOT.
It all seems to boil down to turning up at the test station with no registration plate and then being tested for emissions but if you already have
your assigned Q plate then there is not an emission test.
I can't understand though why in a previous post it was said that the DVLA was reluctant to issue Q plates, as really they have no choice if the
car doesn't meet the criteria for retain a donor registration and does not have enough new components for a brand new reg then it has to be a Q
plate.
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DarrenW
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| posted on 12/2/07 at 02:48 PM |
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When you go for SVA you havent completed the DVLA registration process therefore you dont know 100% if it will be age related or Q at that point.
Age related doesnt have same plate as donor - therefore new chassis etc and needs full SVA.
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BenB
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| posted on 12/2/07 at 02:49 PM |
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But SVA and car registration are two different things....
It doesn't matter whether the DVLA decide your car is age-related, new or Q plate. The test @ SVA is engine-based. IE whether they decide your
car is age-related plate or not is immaterial for SVA. The rules for what vehicles need SVA tests and which get an age-related plate are different.
The DVLA dislikes handing out Q plates (I was informed of this by someone involved pretty high up on a cross party committee on car registration
during the formulation of SVA) because it means there are lots of vehicles of unknown age circulating round- mucks up your departmental statistics for
one thing)....
It is true they have to give you a Q if you fail to comply with the requirements for age-related but they try (in my experience) pretty hard to get
you to find invoices, certificates of newness etc....
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DarrenW
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| posted on 12/2/07 at 02:53 PM |
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SVA is totally independant of DVLA registration so the cars are tested for emaissions based on engine age. It is quite feasible for a car to need a
strict CAT test at SVA then get assigned a Q which means visible smoke test for MOT.
You need the MAC to get the car tested. So presumable there wouldnt be a case where a registered car had to go for an SVA test.
VOSA do also inspect cars that have been stolen / recovered or written off before but this (afaik) is not the same test as a kit cars first SVA.
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DarrenW
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| posted on 12/2/07 at 02:59 PM |
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Ref DVLA's reluctance to issue a Q. My car was inspected at home. Ihad the donor V% etc so age related was going to happen. To the letter of the
law i didnt fully comply as the donor was a DOHC and i used SOHC (pinto) engine. DVLA woman did say though that she would be happy to issue a new log
book on age related without engine number and commented that it isnt uncommon for donors to have had an engine swap. She then went on to say that the
Police like them to issue age related plates as it is a pain trying to trace Q-plate cars sometimes. i got the very distinct impression that they were
trying to avoid Q's if at all possible even if it meant being a touch leniant with the points.
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macnab
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| posted on 12/2/07 at 03:04 PM |
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Seems to be a bit off confusion about age related plates there. My buggy and the JBA Falcon both have age related plates, one an old N reg and the
other a Y reg. Buggy’s still can be put on the road using an existing bugs registration number and do not require any form of SVA test, just an MOT
and off you go. Sometimes they call the car the original name say a Beetle sometimes a Falcon, just luck off the draw. You can apply for the
registration at any point in the build (though it looks better if it resembles a car and not a pile off bits...and yes the police come round to look
at all the forged receipts) and therefore know before hand if your going to get a Q plate or retain the donor cars Reg and be able to skip the SVA
test.
Getting anything else other than a Q plate or the donors reg, like a brand new number requires all components except one major item which may be
reconditioned (like an engine) but that has to be as new condition.
[Edited on 12/2/07 by macnab]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 12/2/07 at 03:18 PM |
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Odd - when I registered my car a couple of years ago, the DVLA were reluctant to give out age-related plates. They were putting all sorts of obstacles
in the way - basically, unless you pushed, you got a Q plate.
David
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macnab
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| posted on 12/2/07 at 03:32 PM |
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What’s worse is that when the police came to inspect the cars and paperwork, on neither occasion did they actually look at the engine number or the
gearbox number. Not surprising really as they would not be happy getting their uniforms covered in grease. To be honest I got the impression that they
were well out their depth and really didn’t know anything about cars, probably thought it was a bit off a skive.
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BenB
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| posted on 12/2/07 at 03:37 PM |
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With beach buggies the VW floorpan is often kept (ie just the rest of the car modified) and the car can keep its original registration number. I agree
its a bit strange that you can change a car that much and not need SVA. Not sure what the rules are if the chassis / floor is chopped. I'd hope
it would mean a SVA test....
Hence those interesting kits a few years back where you chopped the top of a Metro and stuck an AudiTT body on it..... Hohum....
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macnab
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| posted on 12/2/07 at 03:53 PM |
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The thing that gets me is that you can say that the chassis is the original one but then no one ever checks, that really is the case. My Falcon got
its donor reg even though the chassis was a brand new ladder frame (hardly Cortina issue) and the engine was a recon unit. It's never been
brought up at the MOT and neither has the buggy having a Beetle as the discription (as issued by the DVLA).
Both were I may add processed in the correct way as per instructions from the DVLA.
[Edited on 12/2/07 by macnab]
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iank
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| posted on 12/2/07 at 04:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by BenB
With beach buggies the VW floorpan is often kept (ie just the rest of the car modified) and the car can keep its original registration number. I agree
its a bit strange that you can change a car that much and not need SVA. Not sure what the rules are if the chassis / floor is chopped. I'd hope
it would mean a SVA test....
Hence those interesting kits a few years back where you chopped the top of a Metro and stuck an AudiTT body on it..... Hohum....
SWB Buggies with chopped chassis need an SVA
LWB buggies with a complete chassis don't.
The body is irrelevant on cars with a 'real' chassis. If the chassis isn't modified you don't need an SVA.
However many SWB people don't bother as you'd be very unlikely to get caught. Same with the modified Range Rover chassis under hardcore
offroaders.
With the current wording putting an aftermarket sunroof in a mini could require an SVA, so there's lots of grey areas.
Banham (he of the anglegrinder bodychop) initially told customers they didn't need an SVA as they only had 'minor' modifications
(cutting off the roof and all external panels  ), but had to change his tune when the DVLA/VOSA cracked down.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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Catpuss
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| posted on 12/2/07 at 04:01 PM |
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Aye, but if some dumb arse smashes into the side of you and the accident is investigated. Mr plod from Traffpol notices the chassis isn't the
original or OE spec and you have no SVA then you end up with an uninsured car with no valid MOT and potentially of an unroadworthy condition.
I think if that is the case its wise to invest in a butt plug & soap on a rope for shower time protection.
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macnab
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| posted on 12/2/07 at 04:11 PM |
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What about the Landy guys, new chassis are as common as muck on them and how many do you see running a Q plate. I read off a guy who fitted gullwings
to his hatchback (looked not bad either) and ended up with a Q plate! Don't ask me how they found that out, maybe he was dumb enough to tell
them. I have even been in a crash with the Falcon, a big one at that as it took the whole front off the car. The registration number never came into
it or the chassis origins and got 7k back for the car, which I then rebuilt.
[Edited on 12/2/07 by macnab]
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iank
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| posted on 12/2/07 at 04:11 PM |
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A good point, well made though with the current state of the prisons they might have trouble finding you a bed these days.
I suspect it would be some insurance assessor getting his bonus for saving a payout that points out the problems. Traffpol seem to spend most of
their time sitting in camera vans, reloading roadside cameras and chasing chavs these days (on their political masters orders I hasten to add)
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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iank
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| posted on 12/2/07 at 04:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by macnab
What about the Landy guys, new chassis are as common as muck on them and how many do you see running a Q plate...
New OEM specification chassis are allowed, it's considered a repair. Chop 3 inches out of the middle and it's SVA time.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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macnab
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| posted on 12/2/07 at 04:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iank
quote:
Originally posted by macnab
What about the Landy guys, new chassis are as common as muck on them and how many do you see running a Q plate...
New OEM specification chassis are allowed, it's considered a repair. Chop 3 inches out of the middle and it's SVA time.
What about all those chassis I replaced half the damn things cos off rust. You'd have to be a moron too get the DVLA involved when simply
shorting a chassis. Whether it's a OEM chassis or not is irrelevant as its not even the same chassis at all and is no different than swaping a
standard car body for a new one and claiming its the same car...
[Edited on 12/2/07 by macnab]
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 12/2/07 at 04:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by macnab
My Falcon got its donor reg even though the chassis was a brand new ladder frame (hardly Cortina issue) and the engine was a recon unit. It's
never been brought up at the MOT and neither has the buggy having a Beetle as the discription (as issued by the DVLA).
[Edited on 12/2/07 by macnab]
Any vehicle that has a modified or non-original chassis needs SVA. The rules are very clear on this. DVLA will register it if you say it's still
a Beetle but that doesn't make it legal. Just because there are loopholes to getting registered does not mean you have a road-legal vehicle;
your insurers will not pay up if you have an accident and if you've killed or injured someone you're really deep in the s**t.
Back to the original question, to clear up any remaining confusion there are 4 types of registration:
Unmodified chassis = Donor Reg
New / modded chassis but 2 major components from donor = Age related (but NOT the same as donor) reg
All new parts (allowed 1 reconditioned) = new reg
Everything else (indeterminate age/origin) = Q reg
Hope this clears things up!
Matt.
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macnab
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| posted on 12/2/07 at 04:21 PM |
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I didn't tell them it was a beetle, I told them that it was a GP Beach buggy.
It was them that wrote Beetle on the documents...
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iank
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| posted on 12/2/07 at 04:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by macnab
quote:
Originally posted by iank
quote:
Originally posted by macnab
What about the Landy guys, new chassis are as common as muck on them and how many do you see running a Q plate...
New OEM specification chassis are allowed, it's considered a repair. Chop 3 inches out of the middle and it's SVA time.
What about all those chassis I replaced half the damn things cos off rust. You'd have to be a moron too get the DVLA involved when simply
shorting a chassis.
Repairing back to original is allowed. Reducing the wheelbase isn't as it's obviously a modification away from original specification.
Lot's of people do it and don't bother with SVA, if you are lucky and don't have accidents you will never find out.
But as said above if you're in an accident and plod/insurance get a whiff that the vehicle isn't 100% legit and things can get expensive
and/or you end up in court.
Just be thankful we don't live in Germany. Fitting the aftermarket windscreen wipers can cause a TUV fail if they don't have the correct
markings!
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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macnab
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| posted on 12/2/07 at 04:24 PM |
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ahh there we go thats what I was after, the long way round perhaps
New / modded chassis but 2 major components from donor = Age related (but NOT the same as donor) reg
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