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Better Damper Choices Discussion?
ashg - 14/4/12 at 11:58 PM

Ok now i know the mass majority of us either use run of the mill bogo standard protec or gaz shocks. typically the decision for most comes down to price at the end of the day. for me when i built my car i went for gaz as they were what i could afford at the time and seemed to have a good reputation within our little kitcar bubble.

now what i am really interested in, is the people that are running something different? A. what did you pick and B. why did you pick them, C. who helped with your decision and setup requirements.

personally i am considering upgrading my gaz dampers for something rather more exotic. things like ohlins, bilstein, nitron, black art are all floating round in my head. Im not the best driver in the world buit i can shove a car round a track in a time that i dont need to be completely ashamed of.

now if i wanted i could go out and spend 3-4k on a set of ohlins slap them on my roadster that only cost me 3k to build and be happy in the knowledge that i have the best i can afford on the car.

but what i really want to establish is if i do go and spend proper money on top of the range suspension will it give me the mega improvement in handeling/ride/control that i would expect for my money compared to my £300 set of gaz units. Basically what is the point of diminishing return in relation to suspension on a seven type chassis.

now in reality, the car has good power, 4pot brakes all round, lsd, quick rack, super sticky tyres etc etc, the only thing i havent actually improved since building it is the suspension. my plan is to rose joint all the wishbones and fit nicer suspension in the hope that next time all the little gremlins can be ironed out when it is flat floored again. (last time it was done i couldn't adjust the rear toe or front caster to the precision i required)

obviously i know the car has limitations and i dont intend on losing sight of what the car actually is, but at the same time i also think it should reach its full potential.

so DISCUSS....

pgpsmith - 15/4/12 at 05:09 AM

Not knowing where you are on the curve, here's my 2/100ths of a Euro:

Before I spent any money' I'd carefully state my goal. Then I'd acquire a good knowledge of spring and damper functionality.

If I was going to spend serious money on suspension, I'd spend in this order:
Learn to drive well on the track.
Hire some track time with an expert, acquiring a knowledge of what to look for in behavior and in onboard data logging.
Acquire an adequate data logging system.
Test carefully.
Tune. Repeat.
Then you'll know what you need and why. Shocks are so subtle that the right equipment is meaningless without the expertise. -Sort of like jet fighters in the hands of less developed countries.

For one data point on quality and much information on functionality, I can recommend:

Dennis Grant, one guy who has dyno'd hundreds of shocks and has published a good shock tutorial starting (but not ending) here
and shares his findings about the best that he's tested in his Shock Buyer's Guide here.


Enjoy the ride,

Pete

MK9R - 15/4/12 at 07:58 AM

The most important thing if having the valved correctly, its no good spending 3k on a set of off the shelf as they will not be correct for the car. A set of singleway adjustable protech valved correctly will be far better than the wrong set up on an expensive set. I changed from a set of wrongly valved avo's to a proper set of single protechs and it transformed the car. The only improvement I would like is to have the 2 ways, but wouldnt consider spending any more than the cost of the protechs as any gain would be minimal (if any). If you track daying it I really cant see the point of spending all that money for such a marginal improvement (if any). Best bet would to get procomp to test and balance your current setup, if its wrong then let matt spec up a set of protechs

phelpsa - 15/4/12 at 10:05 AM

What do you feel is wrong with your dampers? At the end of the day you will be making adjustments by feel, so if you can't feel what you don't like about the current ones then you will struggle to adjust new dampers to be any better.

Once you've pin pointed the aspect you wish to improve then you may find that a couple of hundred quid re shimming / halving your current dampers is all that's required.

Or you could be trying to find that extra 5% peak grip that comes from lower sticktion/unsprung mass, but really with a Haynes roadster you could make the same improvement for a 10th of the cost with some simple choice mods elsewhere.

So maybe the question is, what do you want to improve?

ashg - 15/4/12 at 10:05 AM

sorry i forgot to mention the gaz ones have been revalved for the car. i have done a fair few days of tuition and the car is well setup. what im looking for is the point where spending more money/time wont make any difference on a 7.

ashg - 15/4/12 at 10:15 AM

to be more specific. the main issue i seem to have is a quick transition from a long sweeping bend into tight corner. with the dampers revalved it has improved but i still find the rear end either too soft or too hard between clicks. i can either have loads of overstear and a lively back end or lots of underster but a stable rear, i cant seem to find a nice neutral feel. dont get me wrong the car drives bloody well but i just feel like i should be getting more out of it.

[Edited on 15/4/2012 by ashg]

Neville Jones - 15/4/12 at 11:16 AM

It's a shame that fella Grant hasn't mentioned the Protech shocks. he also is not quite the expert that he'd want you to think of him.

Protech WILL give you a dyno sheet for each shock, and even give you a sheet for a number of settings if requested.

Next to custom Penske shocks, I'd opt for Protechs every day, and have done with the originator of Protech for the last 25 years.

Cheers,
Nev.

emwmarine - 15/4/12 at 12:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ashg
to be more specific. the main issue i seem to have is a quick transition from a long sweeping bend into tight corner. with the dampers revalved it has improved but i still find the rear end either too soft or too hard between clicks. i can either have loads of overstear and a lively back end or lots of underster but a stable rear, i cant seem to find a nice neutral feel. dont get me wrong the car drives bloody well but i just feel like i should be getting more out of it.

[Edited on 15/4/2012 by ashg]


If you went for Gaz mono tubes you might notice a difference for 2 reasons. Firstly, if you stick with Gaz then Warren will be able to give equivalent valving and springs to what you currently have.

The first reason for changing is that, assuming you have outboard coil overs, you could run the mono tubes upside down reducing the unsprung weight a la Lotus Elise.

Secondly monotubes suffer less cavitation than the standard Gaz twin tube dampers. In an elise Warren reckons his mono tubes are nearly a second a lap quicker round brands than gas gold pros. Mind you he told me that whilst he was trying to sell me them.