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Wheels, warning very shallow content...
Jeffers_S13 - 2/6/05 at 10:32 AM

I currently have the really deep Weller style steel wheels that DAX supply, my car has a Mk5 Cortina axle and cortina uprights which are obviously 4 stud. In the future I'd really like to purchase some alloys, the ones I have my eye on are only available in 5 stud.

My question is, to keep costs and general impact on changes to a minimum how feasible is it to have the hubs modified, remove 3 of the old studs and drill an extra 4 holes to take extra studs to enable me to fit the wheels of my dreams !? obviously Im not just gonna get the Black and Decker and centre punch out and start drilling.

James

mookaloid - 2/6/05 at 10:37 AM

Would you be able to adapt some granada hubs?

I don't know - just a thought

Cheers

Mark

DarrenW - 2/6/05 at 10:50 AM

i would suggest you may run into problems modding your hubs. You'll have to fill the old holes and get the new ones very accurately machined. Wont be cheap and will give you possible durability problems. Different hubs sound like better option.

Id look for different wheels that will fit. Going away from standard may give unforeseen problems in the future.

I assume your wheels of choice are second hand. If not why not try talking to the wheel supplier to see if you can special order the right stud pattern. They may not list all options.
Another idea - Can they be bought with no holes? Ive looked at my Wolfraces and you can see that they are forged with no holes, they are machined in later to give the correct application. Again a machine shop will not be cheap for this but if they have CNC the initial set up will make the other 3 quite quick and easy.

smart51 - 2/6/05 at 10:56 AM

you might be able to get some "spacers" that adapt 4 stud to 5 stud. If you are using popular sizes then you might be able to buy off the shelf. This will change the offset of your wheels a bit but might be better than drilling out your wheels.

Jeffers_S13 - 2/6/05 at 10:59 AM

No the wheels arent secondhand unless I get lucky when the time comes to buy some. Im aware you can have the wheels drilled to suit and some are forged blank etc but the centre of the wheel is very small and there is simply no meat where the 4 studs would go as its a 5 spoke style design FOX RS5 (for those who are wondering) so my options are limited and I'll throw a right tantrum if I cant have what I want

Jeffers_S13 - 2/6/05 at 11:01 AM

quote:
Originally posted by smart51
you might be able to get some "spacers" that adapt 4 stud to 5 stud. If you are using popular sizes then you might be able to buy off the shelf. This will change the offset of your wheels a bit but might be better than drilling out your wheels.


Yep I thought of this, I can get some made if needs be, as you say the only issue being the offset, they're gonna need to be 15-20mm (?) thick to be substantial enough I would have thought ?

Fred W B - 2/6/05 at 11:03 AM

How do you think Ford got the holes into the hubs in the first place?

If your new PCD doesn't put any of the new stud positions partially into the old holes, drill and tap away. I doesn't have to be deadly accurate as the wheel locates on the centre spigot.

Even if one stud position is a problem, you could always weld in a plug and then drill

It's what I did.

Cheers

Fred WB

phelpsa - 2/6/05 at 11:31 AM

Why not just keep the wellers?

I'm sure that early granadas (mk1) had exactly the same uprights just different hubs, and exactly the same axle just different drums, so if you could source one you could just transfer the needed parts.

Adam

Jeffers_S13 - 2/6/05 at 11:48 AM

quote:
Originally posted by phelpsa
Why not just keep the wellers?


Well as much as I like them, they just dont quite have the 'pimp' factor I desire which is a big part of what the Rush is all about really, daft wide wheels and lots of power.

I will keep them but maybe have different tyres on them if ever venture on the track.

Have just been searching google to see a) if the early grannys had 4 or 5 stud and b) if I was lucky, to find if they are straight swap.

NS Dev - 2/6/05 at 11:58 AM

I am 99% certain that MK2 granada hubs fit cortina uprights, which sorts the problem at the front.

The rear is trickier since all granadas used independent rear suspension so there are no halfshafts that are a convenient swap, and the two holes in the halfshaft mean a lack of space to drill 5 holes.

An option, though not a cheap one, would be to use a semi-floating halfshaft from the likes of Quaife, which could then allow the use of any flanges on the end, but would cost more than getting 4 stud wheels made I guess!!!

DarrenW - 2/6/05 at 12:14 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Fred W B
How do you think Ford got the holes into the hubs in the first place?

If your new PCD doesn't put any of the new stud positions partially into the old holes, drill and tap away. I doesn't have to be deadly accurate as the wheel locates on the centre spigot.

Even if one stud position is a problem, you could always weld in a plug and then drill

It's what I did.

Cheers

Fred WB


I would still be very wary about re-drilling hubs that already have holes in them. Even if you plug and weld there will still be inherent weaknesses from the original design. I assume the hubs will need to have studs pressed in rather than being drilled and tapped. One option might be to get some press in studs made with a larger back flange to spread the load further (taking care to ensure correct grade of steel and heat treatment (if any?) is used).

I think modding the hubs is a route you will have to decide on your own, to be safe not many people will be able to advise this. i think cost will still be a limiting factor unless you have workshop equipment (plugs to make, good quality welding, facing them off afterwards, re-drilling accurately, purchase of new studs and fitting back in, all times 4)

Fitting hub adaptors could alter the wheel offsets etc and stress the suspension components. Can you get them for hubs that have studs?? I suppose you will be able to select a wheel with calculated offset to get you backin the right place.

It all sounds very complicated. Try contacting Fox first - maybe they dont list exactly what you need or can do you a special order (i guess they already do wheels with correct spacing etc so will have the program for their machines). Its worth an email enquiry first.

britishtrident - 2/6/05 at 02:24 PM

Any conversion from 4 to 5 stud or vice-versa won't be safe --- dosen't matter how you do it -- re-drill the hub, special spacers, re-drill the wheel it won't work.

At the rear you would need the axle from a Ford P100 pickup. While at the front either P100 or MK1/Mk2 Grandad uprights or perhaps just the hub.

Cortina uses a chopped early Granad floor pan while latter Granada Scorpio shares a Sierra floor pan.

It would be easier to get new wheels.

phelpsa - 2/6/05 at 03:15 PM

Don't the early granny's have the same rear axle?

adam

NS Dev - 2/6/05 at 03:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by phelpsa
Don't the early granny's have the same rear axle?

adam


No, all granadas from the very beginning were IRS believe it or not!

P100!!! That's the jobbie for the rear!!

Britishtrident has sorted it for you there, knew there must be a 5 stud salisbury axle on something other than a transit!!

tis a fully floating axle isn't it as well? and a lovely low ratio! they are 5.1;1 aren't they??

[Edited on 2/6/05 by NS Dev]

Jeffers_S13 - 2/6/05 at 03:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Any conversion from 4 to 5 stud or vice-versa won't be safe --- dosen't matter how you do it -- re-drill the hub, special spacers, re-drill the wheel it won't work.


It sounds like you speak from experience ?

[Edited on 2/6/05 by Jeffers_S13]

DaveFJ - 2/6/05 at 04:28 PM

Why not just buy 4 stud Fox RS5 wheels ?

this site is offering them......

here

britishtrident - 2/6/05 at 07:30 PM

quote:
Originally posted by phelpsa
Don't the early granny's have the same rear axle?

adam


Nope semi trailing arms, even the Mk4 Zodiac had IRS

Jeffers_S13 - 3/6/05 at 11:35 AM

quote:
Originally posted by DaveFJ
Why not just buy 4 stud Fox RS5 wheels ?

this site is offering them......

here


They arent available in 4 stud, there is no meat around the centre of the wheel to allow it, that is a mistake.

britishtrident - 3/6/05 at 03:18 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Jeffers_S13
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Any conversion from 4 to 5 stud or vice-versa won't be safe --- dosen't matter how you do it -- re-drill the hub, special spacers, re-drill the wheel it won't work.


It sounds like you speak from experience ?

[Edited on 2/6/05 by Jeffers_S13]


Once had to get a hub puller re-drilled-- a proper Churchill Rootes heavy duty special tool -- no matter how you played with the position of the stud holes drilling 5 holes in a pcd that already had 4 resulted in a dog breakfast.