smart51
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| posted on 30/12/07 at 09:29 PM |
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rod end slop
I'd planned to use rod ends for my steering but am worried that there may be some slop when using a standard rod end and bolt. Normal cars use
track rod ends with a taper that fits to the steering arm. The taper, when tightened will have no slop.
Am I worrying about nothing or am I better changing to normal track rod ends?
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JoelP
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| posted on 30/12/07 at 09:32 PM |
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my opinion is it wouldnt be a problem, id drill the hub steering taper straight, bolt it all up tight with a spacer.
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nitram38
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| posted on 30/12/07 at 09:33 PM |
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If the upright has a tapered hole, then I don't think that you have any choice, other than to use the corresponding part, unless you can machine
tapered washers to pack the bolt out.
[Edited on 30/12/2007 by nitram38]
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 30/12/07 at 09:33 PM |
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I can't understand the obsession with rose joints, their weak, expensive, most aren’t even sealed properly and last no time at all. Normal track
rods should last at least 60k and have no slop, so what's the point in replacing them?
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 30/12/07 at 09:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
I can't understand the obsession with rose joints, their weak, expensive, most aren’t even sealed properly and last no time at all. Normal track
rods should last at least 60k and have no slop, so what's the point in replacing them?
I wouldn't say they are weak, they are usually made from high strength alloys. However I totaly agree with the rest of your points, in this
application there seems to be little point in replacing a standard track rod end with a "rose joint" style rod end.
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smart51
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| posted on 30/12/07 at 09:43 PM |
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The point is that I'm not using the donor's steering rack or track rods. I plan to make my own "track rods" using 1"
tube and weld in threaded inserts. I'm not using them out of any belief that they're better.
track rod ends, being female, would make it harder for me to make up some track rods, without having access to a lathe.
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nitram38
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| posted on 30/12/07 at 09:44 PM |
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I have rod ends on the F1-2 and I have done 1500 miles on them with no problems. I am also using them on the MotaLeira.
They tend to be lighter so are used on race cars.
A lot of people are driving cars that are half the weight of the original car that the ball joints were designed for, so if you are building a bec,
where every ounce counts, then rod ends do help your weight loss program!
I have driven cars with both options and I do think that you get more driver feedback through a car that uses rod ends, but the car feels a bit more
harsh over bumps.
[Edited on 30/12/2007 by nitram38]
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smart51
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| posted on 30/12/07 at 09:47 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nitram38
If the upright has a tapered hole, then I don't think that you have any choice, other than to use the corresponding part, unless you can machine
tapered washers to pack the bolt out.
[Edited on 30/12/2007 by nitram38]
The tapered hole is just under 1/2" at the wide end and about 3/8" at the narrow end. I planned to drill straight and use a 1/2"
bolt.
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nitram38
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| posted on 30/12/07 at 09:59 PM |
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Then you should use rod ends if it makes your life easier.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 30/12/07 at 10:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by smart51
The point is that I'm not using the donor's steering rack or track rods. I plan to make my own "track rods" using 1"
tube and weld in threaded inserts. I'm not using them out of any belief that they're better.
track rod ends, being female, would make it harder for me to make up some track rods, without having access to a lathe.
are you past the sva? as I don't think your allowed to weld up track rod arms, rather the sva guy would expect the tubes to be threaded instead.
You don't need a lathe to thread that, do it by hand easy. I think you'll find yourself having to replace those rose joint every 4-5k,
which is pretty pathetic really.
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 30/12/07 at 10:03 PM |
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I have seen an adaptor to fit Cortina steering arms to take rod ends somewhere? Possibly Rally Design?
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nitram38
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| posted on 30/12/07 at 10:09 PM |
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I don't think that he is cutting and shutting track rod ends but making a purpose made threaded insert. So I don't expect the sva man will
bat an eyelid.
As to the 4-5K rod end change, how many miles have you done in your car Mr Whippy?
I doubt you will do that many miles in 5 years on most of these cars!
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smart51
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| posted on 30/12/07 at 10:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
I don't think your allowed to weld up track rod arms, rather the sva guy would expect the tubes to be threaded instead. You don't need a
lathe to thread that, do it by hand easy.
You can weld wishbones but not track rods?
If I tapped a tube rather than welding in inserts, I'd still have to use rod end joints. To use proper track rod ends, It would have to be
machined from solid with external threads on one end and internal at the other. I will look into tapping tube though.
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r1_pete
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| posted on 30/12/07 at 10:30 PM |
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Ford MK1,2 Cortina, Corsair, Anglia, Classic, Zeph Zody MK1,2 all had male threads on the rod end. Both left and right had threads available as they
were recirculating ball steering, with 2 rod ends per track rod. 1/2" UNF if memory serves me correct.
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JoelP
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| posted on 30/12/07 at 10:30 PM |
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you'd be looking at something like 16mmx2mm thickness to tap to half inch i think, which isnt bad i suppose - better than using solid bar i
suppose!
It is ludicrous that no welding at all is allowed no steering arms. So much so im not sure it isnt an urban legend.
lot of supposing there 
[Edited on 30/12/07 by JoelP]
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smart51
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| posted on 30/12/07 at 10:38 PM |
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5/8" OD (15.875mm) x .083" wall (2.1mm) is just about right for tapping 1/2" UNF threads. 16mm OD with 2.3mm wall would be perfect,
if such a thing exists.
Male track rod ends sound good. I'd need bigger tubes and taps though.
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smart51
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| posted on 30/12/07 at 10:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by r1_pete
Ford MK1,2 Cortina, Corsair, Anglia, Classic, Zeph Zody MK1,2 all had male threads on the rod end. Both left and right had threads available as they
were recirculating ball steering, with 2 rod ends per track rod. 1/2" UNF if memory serves me correct.
9/16" x 24 according to google.
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r1_pete
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| posted on 30/12/07 at 11:10 PM |
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9/16 UNEF then, you're probably right, might even have a set of taps kicking about somewhere.....
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Bob C
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| posted on 30/12/07 at 11:55 PM |
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Just a thought - make a sleeve with tapered outside & plain inner. Then saw it in half with a hacksaw. When you tighten the bolt thru the eye of
the rosejoint it will push the taper into the tapered hole, gripping & locating PERFECTLY.
Easy if you have a lathe....
Bob
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 31/12/07 at 12:02 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by smart51
track rod ends, being female, would make it harder for me to make up some track rods, without having access to a lathe.
Not all TREs have a female thread, many have a male thread (e.g. Pug 106/206). If you could locate one with a suitable taper it might save you some
work.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 31/12/07 at 08:35 AM |
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I suspect you are making problems for yourself.
A Mk 1 Escort steering rack will do the job
Most british cars under 1500 cc (such as Escort, Viva, Avenger, Spitfire) made in the 1960s/70s used the same thread size and taper as the Mini tre.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 31/12/07 at 09:47 AM |
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Joel , welding is not allowed on track rods as far as M.O.T. is concerned even signs of excessive heat is a failure. Welding is allowed on wishbones
IF it is part of the manufacturing process.
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