omega 24 v6
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 posted on 15/4/07 at 03:35 PM |
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Quick master cyl question.
I'm using the M/s from my donor cavalier (SRI 16V K reg) and it's an ATE type with 2 outlets. One is M10 (nearest the pedal) and one is
M12 (nearest the front of the car). I took it off of the original car and all that were in the holes were pies/nuts(no valves). The original car had
ABS and I don't know which port is for the front and which is for the rear (maybe it does'nt matter).
Can anyone confirm or tell me which is which???
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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turbodisplay
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| posted on 15/4/07 at 04:12 PM |
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I isnt M12 i believe, i think it is not mectric.
Is it ali, just over 4" long with mounting holes offset?
I think it is a front/rear split for abs cylinders.
I`ll check my haynes manual
Darren
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turbodisplay
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| posted on 15/4/07 at 04:14 PM |
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BTW most cylinders have the same bore, so pressure it almost equal.
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 15/4/07 at 04:47 PM |
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quote:
Is it ali, just over 4" long with mounting holes offset?
No its steel.
quote:
I isnt M12 i believe, i think it is not mectric.
I was going by the fact that the smaller is defo 10mm??I have a fitting for the job from an astra.
[Edited on 15/4/07 by omega 24 v6]
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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turbodisplay
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| posted on 15/4/07 at 05:41 PM |
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Hi, sorry if that sounded pedantic, just saying to prevent buying wrong item.
Ok ate cylinder, believe closest to the pedal is front, furthest is for back.
Looking at the manual i believe it has a smaller bore for the rear which should produce less pressure. Can`t be 100% due to manual not saying but i
was going to use a carlton which had a similar ate cylinder.
Is there numbers on the cylinder, if so where are they, as the bore size on disimilar bores are cast on the outside.
Darren
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 15/4/07 at 06:12 PM |
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quote:
Hi, sorry if that sounded pedantic, just saying to prevent buying wrong item.
Not at all my, answers were probably a bit short cause I was in a hurry.
On the casting are the marks 69 (i think) also there is a stamped 4 and a raised 22 Oh and the ATE mark.
The astra that I took the 12mm fitting from looked as though that line (the12mm one) went to the rear.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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turbodisplay
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| posted on 15/4/07 at 07:05 PM |
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Hi i`ll say the bore is 22mm for both.
You might like a carlton 2l cylinder, may fit servo (if you are using one). It has a 22 / 19mm split so less pressure is given to the rear. remember
it is pi*r^2 so the line pressure at the rear is a reasonable amount less. I was going to use this cylinder until i went for vectra abs, which uses
diagonal split so needed equal bores.
Just had a thought, it was my local factors that said it was imperial, they might have been wrong.
Darren
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 15/4/07 at 09:36 PM |
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quote:
You might like a carlton 2l cylinder
Mmmmmm I might have one of them somewhere in my own personal Bermuda triangle. Thanks for you input by the way.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 16/4/07 at 07:17 AM |
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On every vehicle that I have worked with a front-rear split the front section supplies the front brakes.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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NS Dev
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| posted on 16/4/07 at 12:01 PM |
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turbodisplay, smaller bore will give more pressure, not less, don't confuse everybody!!!
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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turbodisplay
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| posted on 16/4/07 at 10:38 PM |
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A smaller bore will give less line pressure, less area, as this is a dual circuit master cylinder.
It is stroke not force that comes into play:
Check wickapedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_brake
pedal > 22mm piston > 19mm piston
area of 22 piston = 380
area of 19 piston = 283
force of 1 at pedal end,
force in 22 chamber = 380
force in 19 chamber = 380 * 283/ 380 = 283
force ratio 380/ 283 = 1.3
Darren
[Edited on 17/4/07 by turbodisplay]
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JoelP
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| posted on 18/4/07 at 09:45 PM |
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from your wikipedia link:
quote:
A larger diameter master cylinder delivers more hydraulic fluid to the slave cylinders, yet requires more brake pedal force and less brake
pedal stroke to achieve a given deceleration. A smaller diameter master cylinder has the opposite effect
Larger bore requires more force at pedal to achieve same deacceleration.
A smaller bore m/c acts as an effort multiplier, compare to a car jack.
[Edited on 18/4/07 by JoelP]
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turbodisplay
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| posted on 19/4/07 at 06:47 AM |
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Yes, but remember you are not acting on the 19mm directly.
The 19mm is a slave pistion.
the less area of the 19mm piston will result in less force exerted when compared to the 22mm pistion.
If the pistons are parrallel as in a ballance bar then yes, smaller bore more pressure.
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turbodisplay
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| posted on 22/4/07 at 06:40 AM |
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Been thinking over this one and have come to the conclusion that both cylinders will produce the same pressure, not more or less (I WAS WRONG) well
half wrong  .
I still think it is for the rear (the 19mm) as it will displace less fluid. I think it is to reduce total pedal movement.
Darren
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 22/4/07 at 05:51 PM |
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Well after some investigation i'd say the following.
1 the front chamber seems to have a greater flow
2 the front chamber seems to apply pressure very slightly before the rear chamber.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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turbodisplay
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| posted on 23/4/07 at 10:20 PM |
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Me being stupid here:
Is that front being closest to the pedal, or front of the car?
Darren
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