fuzzy!!
|
| posted on 25/10/07 at 07:18 PM |
|
|
Oh dear - axle trouble
it looks like 17 years of standing and a little too much elbow grease (and carelessness  ) has resulted in this approx 1" hole in the rear plate
of my axle - any suggestions as to how to best fix it? the steel around the immediate area sounds very thin
 
|
|
|
|
|
Mark Allanson
|
| posted on 25/10/07 at 07:20 PM |
|
|
cut it off completely and weld on a stainless steel dog bowl
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
|
|
|
snapper
|
| posted on 25/10/07 at 07:22 PM |
|
|
well its probably a good thing that you foud it now and not when all the oil drained out.
I would keep going with the derusting and see whether you really do need a new pressed steel cover
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
|
|
|
fuzzy!!
|
| posted on 25/10/07 at 07:23 PM |
|
|
is that a genuine recommendation? because it does almost sound plausible 
|
|
|
Peteff
|
| posted on 25/10/07 at 07:51 PM |
|
|
I've got an Atlas axle with a similar problem but the cover is bolt on. Ikea is a good source of stainless bowls in a variety of sizes 
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
|
|
|
britishtrident
|
| posted on 25/10/07 at 07:55 PM |
|
|
Gas weld or Braze/Silver Solder a patch on
Welding mild steel to (most) stainless steels isn't an option.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
|
|
|
Danozeman
|
| posted on 25/10/07 at 08:21 PM |
|
|
What about a tupaware bowl if you cant weld stainless to it?
Im sure iv seen on here you can buy new back plates to weld on.
Dan
Built the purple peril!! Let the modifications begin!!
http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk
|
|
|
MikeR
|
| posted on 25/10/07 at 10:38 PM |
|
|
standard mig wire will weld stainless - the only problem is the weld isn't stainless therefore will rust. I've done it with argoshield
(co2 / argon mix). No idea how strong it is yet, but the welds i've done aren't structural.
|
|
|
Volvorsport
|
| posted on 25/10/07 at 10:53 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Gas weld or Braze/Silver Solder a patch on
Welding mild steel to (most) stainless steels isn't an option.
as are most RH chassis .
id weld a plate on it .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
|
|
|
MikeRJ
|
| posted on 25/10/07 at 10:57 PM |
|
|
Does the main axle housing ever rot through on the English axles, or is it just the diff cover which is exceptionaly thin?
|
|
|
Syd Bridge
|
| posted on 26/10/07 at 09:43 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Welding mild steel to (most) stainless steels isn't an option.
Pray tell, Just WHERE do you get your misinformation??
People have welded/brazed steel and stainless steel together for generations. Geez, I can even go down to my local welding supply shop and get special
arc rods and tig rods for the very same purpose.
Cheers,
SYd. 
|
|
|
02GF74
|
| posted on 26/10/07 at 03:27 PM |
|
|
Syd is correct, the hub shaft spindle nut on Tutamkamun's ceremonial chariots were welded using these materials.
|
|
|
britishtrident
|
| posted on 26/10/07 at 04:13 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Syd Bridge
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Welding mild steel to (most) stainless steels isn't an option.
Pray tell, Just WHERE do you get your misinformation??
People have welded/brazed steel and stainless steel together for generations. Geez, I can even go down to my local welding supply shop and get special
arc rods and tig rods for the very same purpose.
Cheers,
SYd.
No such thing "Stainless steel" --- stainless steels come many different groups with widely different constituents and
structure. Most stainless steels use very widely varying amounts chromium and/or nickel as a constituent that coats the grains of the steel to
provide the "stainless" effect. Stainless steels may also contain widely varying amounts of cobalt, manganese and vanadium.
The key thing is chromium and nickel like have a major hardening effect on steel. In the production of stainless steel the chromium and nickel
solidify around the grain boundaries giving a chrome plated effect to each grain. In this position the inside of the grain still retains a ferritic
core so steel doesn't become brittle and retains good mechanical properties.
However in a weld and the haz (heat affected zone) bordering the weld the chrome or nickel can atoms can become physically jammed between the
crystalline matrix of each grain this is called interstitial hardening.
This type of crystalline structure in ferrous alloys is called martensite --- martensite is very hard and brittle and will lead to cracking of the
weld.
Never weld any type of steel other than low carbon mild steel unless you have a good idea what you are dealing with.
[Edited on 26/10/07 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
|
|
|
Syd Bridge
|
| posted on 27/10/07 at 01:00 PM |
|
|
Ahhh--Now I know. Even I can 'cut and paste' from an internet blurb.
It must all be true. After all, you read it on the internet! It's a shame you don't understand it.
You still don't say why 'stainless' and other steels cannot be welded to each other, as is common practice in many industries,
including shipping, as you should well know.
That's why the special rods are available for purchase at my local welding supply shop. Would you like me to send you some, just so you can
practice and learn something new and real life applicable?
Cheers,
Syd.
|
|
|
britishtrident
|
| posted on 27/10/07 at 01:17 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Syd Bridge
Ahhh--Now I know. Even I can 'cut and paste' from an internet blurb.
It must all be true. After all, you read it on the internet! It's a shame you don't understand it.
You still don't say why 'stainless' and other steels cannot be welded to each other, as is common practice in many industries,
including shipping, as you should well know.
That's why the special rods are available for purchase at my local welding supply shop. Would you like me to send you some, just so you can
practice and learn something new and real life applicable?
Cheers,
Syd.
No it came from straight from memory with a 2 minute refresh of my much thumbed 2nd & 3rd year undergaduate text book, R.A. Higgins
"Engineering Metallurgy: book 1 Applied Physical Metallurgy". I was lucky to get a grounding in the black art of metallurgy from a couple
of very good materials scientists.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
|
|
|
Syd Bridge
|
| posted on 28/10/07 at 11:40 AM |
|
|
Well, your wording came direct from a book, as I suspected.
Your lack of a sensible, laymans explanation as to why two differing steels should not be welded, still shows a lack of understanding of what is
written in the book. Tell me why 'stainless steel' is called so, and the reasons for it, in terms not out of a book. If you can.
I'll say again, people weld 'stainless steel' and ordinary steel to each other every day, with welding filler rods made specifically
for the purpose.
Cheers,
Syd.
|
|
|
rusty nuts
|
| posted on 28/10/07 at 12:51 PM |
|
|
30 years ago I saw some materials welded by friction welding at the Welding Institute near Cambridge . Ferrous metals joined to non ferrous simply by
applying speed and pressure. The point I'm trying to make is that although perhaps not ideal, dissimilar metals can be welded.
|
|
|
ChrisGamlin
|
| posted on 30/10/07 at 01:05 PM |
|
|
What is it about English axles and mettalurgy arguments Mr Trident?
As with our discussion a while back (regarding whether or not to tack weld bearing retaining collars on English halfshafts), I think again
you're failing to acknowledge the differences between lab theory best practice and real world proven application.
If it was a rollcage mount or suspension pickup being discussed here then maybe the solution wouldn't be suitable but in this case all the mod
needs to do is hold oil in the diff so its hardly likely to be unduly stressed or be catastrophic even if it does eventually crack!
|
|
|
britishtrident
|
| posted on 30/10/07 at 01:30 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
What is it about English axles and mettalurgy arguments Mr Trident?
As with our discussion a while back (regarding whether or not to tack weld bearing retaining collars on English halfshafts), I think again
you're failing to acknowledge the differences between lab theory best practice and real world proven application.
If it was a rollcage mount or suspension pickup being discussed here then maybe the solution wouldn't be suitable but in this case all the mod
needs to do is hold oil in the diff so its hardly likely to be unduly stressed or be catastrophic even if it does eventually crack!
Never weld a bearing to an axle shaft -- asking for failure.
I think you will find my suggested method of repair a gas welded or brazed MS patch the simplest.
|
|
|
britishtrident
|
| posted on 30/10/07 at 01:37 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
30 years ago I saw some materials welded by friction welding at the Welding Institute near Cambridge . Ferrous metals joined to non ferrous simply by
applying speed and pressure. The point I'm trying to make is that although perhaps not ideal, dissimilar metals can be welded.
Yes disimiar metals can be weld, particularly by friction and laser weld because the the produce very narrow HAZ (heat affected zones ). Welds almost
invariably fail in the HAZ not the weld area itself. What you can't do is use a normal hobby welded to stick an unkown type of stainless
ferrous alloy to mild steel and call it a weld.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
|
|
|
DarrenW
|
| posted on 30/10/07 at 01:44 PM |
|
|
Would it not be easier to get a new plate jobby or another axle tube?
|
|
|
britishtrident
|
| posted on 30/10/07 at 02:02 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Syd Bridge
Well, your wording came direct from a book, as I suspected.
Your lack of a sensible, laymans explanation as to why two differing steels should not be welded, still shows a lack of understanding of what is
written in the book. Tell me why 'stainless steel' is called so, and the reasons for it, in terms not out of a book. If you can.
I'll say again, people weld 'stainless steel' and ordinary steel to each other every day, with welding filler rods made specifically
for the purpose.
Cheers,
Syd.
Syd you take every opportunity to display your lack of knowledge and lack off manners.
Over years I have been truly appalled by your pathetic attempts to pick fights with other members of this forum.
Those who have been around for a while will remember one particular member who contributed a thousand times more to the constructive discussion than
you ever will who was driven off by your continual jealousy of his superior skill and knowledge.
I was also disgusted by your pathetic little U2U messages which attempted to get me as ally when ever Rorty or anyone else was beating you on a
technical point.
As to a sensible laymans explantion; You cannot weld two widely differing ferrous alloys together unless you know something of the matallurgy of the
resulting weld and the surrounding heat affected zone.
Stainless steels contain significant percentages of Chromium and Nickle both which have a hardening effect on steel as a result it is likely hard
spots are likely to occur at the boundary zone between the weld and parent metal.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
|
|
|
MikeR
|
| posted on 30/10/07 at 06:47 PM |
|
|
could i a complete non expert (*) comment.
You can weld dis-similar metals together but the weld will have weaknesses in them. Only someone who knows what they are doing will understand the
weaknesses and the effects of the weaknesses.
Muppets like myself happily weld two bits together and hope the effect doesn't bite us! (in my case my exhaust mount break).
(*) ok, brag moment, i did once pass a welding city and guilds, but that taught me how to hold a welder and not a lot more!
[Edited on 30/10/07 by MikeR]
|
|
|
owelly
|
| posted on 31/10/07 at 10:59 PM |
|
|
He's my tuppence worth.....
I agree entirely with Britishtrident. What he's saying has dragged me back to my 'Materials' lectures and what he's saying is,
unsuprisingly, correct.
However, if we are still talking about welding a dog bowl to the axle, the chances are the dog bowl isn't, by definition, stainless. If it is,
it's probably of such poor quality, that finding a filler rod to match it would prove fruitless.
All these factors (and my professional training) wouldn't stop me from trying to weld a dog bowl to the axle. If the dog bowl would'nt
weld or get a good seal, then I'd try a small tea-tray. If that didn't work, I'd cut a circle of steel from the side of the fridge
and weld that it. If that didn't work............
The point I'm struggling to make is that, even if it's not 'good practise' to do something a certain way, it doesn't
always mean it's not possible!
And if welding fails, crack open the Araldite. Then the fibreglass..........
[Edited on 31/10/07 by owelly]
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
|
|
|
chockymonster
|
| posted on 1/11/07 at 09:36 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by owelly
If that didn't work, I'd cut a circle of steel from the side of the fridge and weld that it. If that didn't work............
Make sure it's the side against the kitchen wall, SWMBO would get upset otherwise.
PLEASE NOTE - Responses on Forum Threads may contain Sarcasm and may not be suitable for the hard of Thinking.
|
|
|
.jpg)
