greggors84
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| posted on 8/11/03 at 01:35 AM |
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Rear Hub Bearing Assembley
Im having trouble with my rear uprights. They are from a sierra with ABS. I took the old oil seals off took out the bearings, cleaned them up, re
greased them, put them back in and fitted new oil seals. Now when i try and assemble the whole drive unit, (not including the drive shafts) and
tighten the hub nuts up, the outside flange wont turn. When i put the rear hub together it seems to go in ok, just wont budge when i tighten the hub
nut. Its really annoying as it was working before. I have taken the lip off the edge of the MK uprights so the abs splines dont catch.
Also the bearings can be moved about inside the hub quite easily (when the hub is not assembled, i was wondering if they should sit tight. I also
managed to pull the outside of one bearing assembley off (by accident) i managed to get it back on, is this ok, or have i f***ed it? I should get some
new bearings anyway really.
Any help would be good, as i really wanted to get it on its wheels this weekend.
p.s. Scotlad has/had a similar problem, i replied to his topic but thats in the MK section, i thought i would introduce the problem to the rest of the
forum.
Thanks
Chris
The Magnificent 7!
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andyps
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| posted on 8/11/03 at 08:16 AM |
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I guess there are a few questions to ask here which may help - first, does the hub not turn at all or is it just very tight. Second, when you say the
bearings can be moved about inside the hub easily is that the bearing in the hub, or the inner part of the bearing inside the outer (this would be
fairly normal). What do you mean by pulling the outside of one bearing assembly off?
Can you confirm that the bearings are tapered roller as the haynes manual states, rather than ball bearing type (i.e. are the rolling elements in the
bearing tapered or spherical).
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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mackie
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| posted on 8/11/03 at 10:30 AM |
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This may be stupid/obvious but did you remember to repack the bearings with the correct grease?
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greggors84
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| posted on 8/11/03 at 05:44 PM |
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I put castrol LM grease in the bearings, which i am led to beleive is the right stuff for bearings. How much should i be using. I made sure they were
nice and full of grease.
The inside part of the bearing came out and the rollers are tapered.
I knocked the seals in a bit more, and it seems to have cured it. When tightening the hub nut, it seems to tighten to a point. Rather than just keep
on getting tighter at the same rate, if you know what i mean.
Thanks
Chris
The Magnificent 7!
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 8/11/03 at 06:13 PM |
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are the outer races fully up against the stops?
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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greggors84
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| posted on 8/11/03 at 06:54 PM |
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could you describe in more deatail what you mean by "the stops" do you know of a diagram on the net ? of the inside?
Thanks
Chris
The Magnificent 7!
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blueshift
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| posted on 8/11/03 at 07:13 PM |
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greggors, I had a look at doing the same thing as you the other day. since you're a bit further on can you advise me...
are the seals just the soft flappy bits, or are those permanently fixed to metal rings that you have to prise out?
I had a little go at prising out the soft seal bits but they didn't seem keen to come out and I didn't want to force them.
ta
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Peteff
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| posted on 8/11/03 at 07:53 PM |
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The rubber is attached to a metal ring and has to come out with it. The bearing outer race, the tapered one that the rest seats in, has to be right up
to the shoulder inside the hub. We use a socket to drift them in. If they aren't in far enough they will not pull in with the hub nut but will
hold the bearing off and lock it up. Be brutal and belt them in as they will not be square in the housing till they hit the seats.
yours, Pete.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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andyps
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| posted on 8/11/03 at 08:27 PM |
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The best thing to use to push the outer into place is another outer - if you have one. Be careful when using anything which does not spread the load
evenly around the bearing as something like a drift will cause stress raisers in the outer which will dramatically reduce the bearing life.
What can ofetn happen if the outer is not seated correctly is that the bhearing pulls up OK and then the first time you hit a pothole the shock seats
the outer which then leads to a very loose bearing.
LM Grease is correct. The seals should almost certainly be pushed in until they are in contact with the bearing (i.e. won't go in any
further).
Hope this helps.
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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greggors84
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| posted on 8/11/03 at 09:13 PM |
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The whole metal ring has to come out, mine were pretty rusted up, so i used a screwdriver to get the out. If you tap a flat screw driver inbetween the
hub and the seal you can usually prise it out in one go.
Looks like i will have to take out the seals again to check the bearings are in ok. Im pretty sure i didnt have to knock the bearings in. Which
probably means they arnt in correctly.
Chris
The Magnificent 7!
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blueshift
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| posted on 9/11/03 at 03:08 AM |
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Ta for that, I'll give the seals a thwack tomorrow.
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craig1410
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| posted on 9/11/03 at 03:07 PM |
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One thing I'd like to add is that I had a similar "bearing lock up" problem which turned out to be caused by one of the taper
rollers being in the wrong way around. It fell out of the plastic cage during disassembly and I popped it back in without thinking.
As the name suggests the rollers are not perfect cylinders and you need to point the thinner end towards the centre of the bearing. The effect I had
was a very rough feeling bearing as if it was full of grit but as I was only tightening it up a little to trial fit everything I didn't damage
anything. I'd expect if you torqued it up like this then something would break.
Anyone got an idea of the price of bearings and oil seals for the Sierra rears as my oil seals were destroyed during removal but the bearings look
quite good. Can you get seals on their own and would you advise me to reuse the old bearings or just get new ones?
Thanks,
Craig.
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Peteff
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| posted on 9/11/03 at 06:32 PM |
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Last ones I bought for the nephews car were just under £13 per side. That includes seals and new nuts left and right hand thread for either side. I
believe they are same front and rear on his car, 1.8 CVH.
yours, Pete.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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craig1410
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| posted on 9/11/03 at 07:08 PM |
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Thanks,
At that price I'll probably just replace the lot and be done with it. How hard are the bearing outer's to extract? What method works best
to get them out?
Cheers,
Craig.
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andyps
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| posted on 9/11/03 at 11:30 PM |
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You can get seals on their own - especially if you can get them out without too much damage. Take them along to a bearing distributor (see Yellow
Pages for local ones - there will be loads) and they will measure up and supply you with the seal.
The bearing outer should be fairly easy to get out - there are normally cutaways in the housing shoulder which can be used to place a drift in to
knock the outers out.
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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greggors84
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| posted on 9/11/03 at 11:56 PM |
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The seals are £6 a pair. I have ordered 2 pairs of fronts from ford so far, and they keep on getting me rears.
By the way ive sorted my bearing problems, i was getting the outer bearing races mixed up with the bearing cage. I thought the machined surface of the
outer race was part of the hub, so i was wondering why my outer race (the cage) was free to move about. The non movement problem was sorted by
knocking the seals in a bit further.
How do you get the front, outer most bearing out, i tried using a bearing puller, but it bent the cage, i knocked the cage back into shape, is this
ok. I am thinking i will replace it some time.
So i am a happy bunny now i have sorted the rear hub problem
But now i have to sort out the thread on the off side front hub thingy, that the mechanic that undid the hubs for me, knocked so hard that its f***ed.
I can use a die at uni to re thread it though, so it shouldnt be a problem. He did it for free as well though, so cant complain too much. 
At least my car is now on 3 wheels and moved from the very drafty open barn and into the warmer but cramped garage.
Thanks for your paitence and sorry for my ignorance of bearings.
 
3 Wheelers
Chris
The Magnificent 7!
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craig1410
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| posted on 10/11/03 at 05:37 PM |
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Andy,
The problem is that the two bearing outer races are back to back and thus, until I get one of them out, I can't get at the second one. An
internal three jaw puller is the only thing I can think would do the job but just wondered if this is an easy or difficult job and whether heat is
usually required to shift them.
Cheers,
Craig.
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James
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| posted on 10/11/03 at 05:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
Andy,
The problem is that the two bearing outer races are back to back and thus, until I get one of them out, I can't get at the second one. An
internal three jaw puller is the only thing I can think would do the job but just wondered if this is an easy or difficult job and whether heat is
usually required to shift them.
Cheers,
Craig.
Craig,
Your's must be very different from mine. Interestingly I'm at this exact stage too and intend to put them back together tonight. With
mine, once you've removed the oil seal the bearings come straight out.
Just hope they go straight in...
Cheers,
James
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craig1410
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| posted on 10/11/03 at 06:01 PM |
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James,
Yes mine are the same. I have an inner race which slips over the hub and a plastic cage which locates the taper rollers onto this inner race.
However, in the hub carrier there are two machined parts (outer races?) which I just assumed were removable. Perhaps they are not? If not then am I
correct in assuming that if the bearings wear significantly then you have to throw away the entire hub carrier?
I've not actually tried to remove the outer races yet but they look like they'd be tricky, and if they are part of the hub carrier then
they will be even trickier to remove... 
Cheers,
Craig.
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greggors84
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| posted on 10/11/03 at 06:41 PM |
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James, this is waht confused me. I thought the bit that comes out easily once you have taken the oil seal out, was the whole bearing. But apparently
that the smooth machined surface the bearings run, is the outer race, and comes out. I havent tried too hard to take it out, but it looks hard. I
think i will just leave them in as they look ok.
If you dont understand what im talking about, just say and i will try and explain it a different way. But i think you are thinking the same as i was.
Once i knew i understood what every once meant, by pressing the bearings in up to the stops.
Chris
The Magnificent 7!
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Peteff
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| posted on 10/11/03 at 07:05 PM |
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Don't leave the old outers in as they are not forced to be the same taper as replacements from a different supplier. You can knock the old ones
out easily enough by striking them from the rear with a hammer and chisel. There is a small amount showing above the lip of the stop.
yours, Pete.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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craig1410
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| posted on 10/11/03 at 09:09 PM |
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Thanks for that, I was pretty sure that Ford wouldn't have designed a hub carrier where only half of the bearing could be replaced... (You had
me wondering though James  )
Cheers,
Craig.
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andyps
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| posted on 10/11/03 at 11:04 PM |
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Good advice from Pete - you should always replace the inner and outer together because different manufacturers can use slight variations in angle
(although this should not be the case), but also because if the inner was wron, the outer also will be, and this would wear the new inner.
I would be surprised if the two inners mount together directly - there should be a shoulder of some sort to ensure they are positioned correctly, but
I haven't taken my hubs apart yet to check.
Regarding cages, plastic ones are ok to take off and put back together (although this shouldn't be necessary) but it is unlikely that you could
replace a metal cage and get it closed correctly to ensure all rollers are seated properly and free to rotate - at manufacture stage the whole cage is
supported as it is closed by a specific die for each bearing size.
Take care when fitting the new components to ensure no damage to the surfaces - the old outers are great to use to press the new ones in, provided you
can get them out again. Just make sure that unless using something like the old part which presses around the whole bearing that the tool to fit the
bearing is "softer" than the bearing surface otherwise you will damage the bearing - a very common cause of early failure. Hardened
drifts/punches often cause this.
Sorry for loads of info, but during 11 years working for Timken (inventor and manufacturer of tapered roller bearings) I saw lots of failures due to
fitting errors!
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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blueshift
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| posted on 14/11/03 at 01:16 AM |
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Ah, I'm glad this was a recent thread. just tried to caaarefuly get the oil seals out of my (fairly rusty) rear hubs and, predicably, bent them
to bollocks.
Bearings look good though, I'll keep those, and brake reconditioning is coming along nicely..
It's nice to see a pile of rusty greasy poo start to turn into less rusty, less greasy shit.
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Peteff
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| posted on 14/11/03 at 10:16 AM |
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Wash them through with petrol and let them dry out, then regrease them. Don't leave them lying about to pick swarf up pack them in something
clean and store them safe. I reused my originals and one siezed on the front hub.
yours, Pete.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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