I wrapped a piece of shim steel round the shank of a 12mm bolt before fitting it.
Works a treat
I have a gts dedion tube, trailing arms and panhard rod.
The dedion tube's boss for the panhard rod has an m12 thread and the rose joint used at the axle end of the panhard is 1/2".
I've had it all done up for a while, but not tweeked/torqued right up for the final time, but there seems to be some lateral/sideways movement in
the axle which I'm putting down to the 0.5mm or so different between a 12mm bolt shank and a 1/2" rod end hole.
Has anyone else noticed similar problems, or am I worrying over nothing?
I know 0.5mm isn't much, but when you're on the road and it could change your rear axles squareness or toe I'd be concerned.
cheers,
Ned.
Is the movement there if you just push sideways, or only if you lift the axle up/down? The shouldn't be much sideways action, but will always be some due to using a Panhard rod as opposed to a Watts linkage. May sound silly, but have you checked all the other bolts?
Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit. Will check/torque all the bolts up tonight and see if anything improves.
cheers,
Ned.
Engineering wise, yes all the bolts should really be 1/2". However with a 0.7mm difference, equating to 0.35mm movement in any given driection,
and no movement if the bolts done up properly! (The rose joint is clamped tight to the axle) Then it shouldnt be a problem.
David
For what it's worth I had exactly the same concerns.
I wrapped a piece of shim steel round the shank of a 12mm bolt before fitting it.
Works a treat
You don't want to run M12 bolts on 1/2" holes. As was said, the clamp on the joint should in theory keep it tight, but in my experience,
they nearly always come loose and start knocking.
Wrapping with a shim is one answer, another would be to go down to M10 bolts (which are still much more than strong enough, well OTT) and make up some
top hat spacers stepped to sit through the 1/2" bracket holes. I'd do the latter, and oyu can glue the spacers in so you don't need 3
hands when installing the joint.
You can't reduce to 10mm... The Rose joint is bolted into a pre tapped 12mm bush welded onto the DeDion tube.
what do you mean by wrapping with a shim? Where can I find such a wafer thin piece of metal to try and cut and wrap around the bolt shank?
cheers,
Ned.
Feeler gauges?? 
Mick
Foil?
Coke can...
Pat...
A drop of Locitite Bearing Fit --- hmm in the right place
Ned U2U sent
u2u replied, thanks very much BKLOCO.
Ned.
I do get worried when I hear things like this.
You should even think twice about using a 1/2" bolt directly in a 1/2" rod end as most commercial fasteners are 8 to 10 thou down on their
nominal size and the amount of fretting that this gives cause to premature failure.
As detailed earlier you shoud use a larger rod end in this case, probably a 16mm one with 'top hat' reducers in the bore and then drill the
holes in these 11.9mm to take the 12mm bolt.
If you wish to use bolts directly in rod ends use NAS bolts which are 1 to 2 thou down on their nominal size.
I know it's been mentioned on this site before but a read of caroll smith's nut, bolts and fastener handbook or prepare to win would give
you lads who are really into doing a job right all the pointers on this sort of thing.
12mm in 1/2" hole gives at least 28 thou overall (more like 36 with commercial bolts) or 14 (18) side to side movement which in engineering terms
is a fecking mile out.
[Edited on 9/2/06 by Nick Skidmore]
It's in the post.
thanks again...
Ned.
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Skidmore
I do get worried when I hear things like this.
You should even think twice about using a 1/2" bolt directly in a 1/2" rod end as most commercial fasteners are 8 to 10 thou down on their nominal size and the amount of fretting that this gives cause to premature failure.
As detailed earlier you shoud use a larger rod end in this case, probably a 16mm one with 'top hat' reducers in the bore and then drill the holes in these 11.9mm to take the 12mm bolt.
If you wish to use bolts directly in rod ends use NAS bolts which are 1 to 2 thou down on their nominal size.
I know it's been mentioned on this site before but a read of caroll smith's nut, bolts and fastener handbook or prepare to win would give you lads who are really into doing a job right all the pointers on this sort of thing.
12mm in 1/2" hole gives at least 28 thou overall (more like 36 with commercial bolts) or 14 (18) side to side movement which in engineering terms is a fecking mile out.
[Edited on 9/2/06 by Nick Skidmore]
Missed the extra answers and looks like I'm a tad late now, but I would gladly spin up a top hat adaptor for anybody that needed one, as would Nick.
I have asked this question to Darren but have had no reply, I fitted my Dedion 2 weeks ago and was concerned about this play too.
Anyidea what it shold be torqued up to?
Anyone willing to offer a bit of shim steel???
Locoboy, I have some that BKLOCO kindly sent through to me. If you're not in a rush I can send some onto you once I've done mine, there
should be plenty enough to do mine and yours.
cheers,
Ned.
Would be much appreciated Ned, and BKLOCO
You have U2U Ned.
Right, been busy in the garage, here's some pics of the problem and the solution:
problem of slop between 1/2" rod end and m12 bolt:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/upload/IMG_1809b.jpg
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/upload/IMG_1810b.jpg
shim steel to pack out the girth of the bolt:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/upload/IMG_1811b.jpg
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/upload/IMG_1812b.jpg
solution/shim steel in situ in rosejoint:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/upload/IMG_1814b.jpg
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/upload/IMG_1815b.jpg
cheers,
Ned.
[Edited on 16/2/06 by ned]
Well played!