Benzo
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| posted on 16/2/13 at 11:06 PM |
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2 Pot billet caliper with mech. Handbrake?
Has anyone got anything light and small for the back of my car, I've sierra calipers at the moment but looking something lighter that will pass
mot..
Thanks.
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phelpsa
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| posted on 17/2/13 at 12:09 AM |
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Peugeot 106/205/306/309 rear calipers, if you can come up with a way of fitting them.
[Edited on 17-2-13 by phelpsa]
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 17/2/13 at 03:04 AM |
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pug calipers are not 2 pot, they are single. They are also shockingly poor as handbrakes.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 17/2/13 at 08:37 AM |
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Arent golf callipers popular? Not sure if thats cause they are light or just readily available, or both?
Edit also didn't realise they were 1pots
[Edited on 17-2-13 by loggyboy]
Mistral Motorsport
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britishtrident
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| posted on 17/2/13 at 09:02 AM |
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Absolutely nothing wrong with floating callipers, that they are inferior to traditional symmetrical type is a bar room myth. Girling developed the
"Colette" pattern floating calliper which is the type most modern designs are based on in the 1970s to reduce unsprung weight
Floating rear callipers with built in handbrakes just need careful setting up to give a decent handbrake, some models suffer from poor handbrakes
because the linkage isn't stiff enough.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Benzo
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| posted on 17/2/13 at 09:16 AM |
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Should have said guys I'm looking for an aluminium caliper.. I've already got new sierra caliper on there but they are very heavy!
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zekill
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| posted on 17/2/13 at 10:04 AM |
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Hi Benzo,
Pug/citroen rear calipers are alloy, avaible in 30 or 32mm dia piston.
Some Renault use the same too.
Perhaps issue is this caliper work with 8mm tickness discs.
I work on this setup for live axle.
hope that help.
Fisher Fury with Phoenix bodywork, Blade 919cc
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phelpsa
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| posted on 17/2/13 at 10:38 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
pug calipers are not 2 pot, they are single. They are also shockingly poor as handbrakes.
Quite aware of this, but good luck finding a lightweight aluminium 2pot with a handbrake mechanism.
They are small, light and will pass an MOT, seems to cover all the bases. They are only shockingly poor once the mechanism has started to seize.
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phelpsa
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| posted on 17/2/13 at 10:41 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zekill
Hi Benzo,
Pug/citroen rear calipers are alloy, avaible in 30 or 32mm dia piston.
Some Renault use the same too.
Perhaps issue is this caliper work with 8mm tickness discs.
I work on this setup for live axle.
hope that help.
You could use a bendix front pad carrier and pads which are designed for 10mm discs and go straight on. I just had my discs skimmed down to 8mm.
[Edited on 17-2-13 by phelpsa]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 17/2/13 at 11:10 AM |
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The OPs car is bike engined this implies the weight bias is towards the rear requiring large bore rear callipers rather than small ones. MG TF
callipers are in the right ball park bigger bore but only slightly lighter than Sierra.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Benzo
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| posted on 17/2/13 at 11:21 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zekill
Hi Benzo,
Pug/citroen rear calipers are alloy, avaible in 30 or 32mm dia piston.
Some Renault use the same too.
Perhaps issue is this caliper work with 8mm tickness discs.
I work on this setup for live axle.
hope that help.
I'll look into that, what model of pug/ Citroen where they used on?
Don't mind skimming the rear discs, will only make them lighter, so certainly a possibility!
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zekill
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| posted on 17/2/13 at 11:51 AM |
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saxo and 106 120hp, 205 gti 1.9, 206rc, saxo vts.
all discs are 8mm tick and 108x4 pattern, center bore is 71mm.
Fisher Fury with Phoenix bodywork, Blade 919cc
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Benzo
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| posted on 17/2/13 at 11:55 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zekill
saxo and 106 120hp, 205 gti 1.9, 206rc, saxo vts.
all discs are 8mm tick and 108x4 pattern, center bore is 71mm.
Ofcourse pug & ford have the same pcd! Excellent!
I shall get on eBay now to try a pair!
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Benzo
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| posted on 17/2/13 at 12:02 PM |
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I should ask.. Has anyone get a pair?
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 17/2/13 at 12:10 PM |
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quote:
They are only shockingly poor once the mechanism has started to seize.
In my experience this isn't the case. I've been stripping and rebuilding calipers for a long time and I have done
this twice on these calipers now, replacing all parts and checking
caliper condition, with no improvement measured. I even replaced
a caliper with a new one last mot and it made sod all difference. I also
Replaced all cables, discs and pads and adjusted as per several different regimes
And none improved the braking. I for one am very wary of this caliper
And my local garage/mot place agrees they always struggle to get them through. Ymmv
Fwiw I could generate plenty of force if I extended the cable lever arm but the stock pug setup is poor. Maybe a custom lever might work but bearing
in mind that's one of the regular mot complaints on h 306 (long lever throw before lock despite adjusted until just binding when off) I
don't think I would trust it.
[Edited on 17/2/13 by coyoteboy]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 17/2/13 at 12:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Benzo
I should ask.. Has anyone get a pair?
I think you should do the maths before wasting money and effort the small Pug rear callipers have about half the effective hydraulic area of
Sierra so you only get half the braking for the same pedal effort and it will really screw up your brake balance even with an adjustable balance
pedal box and different bore master cylinders. on the front and rear circuits.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Benzo
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| posted on 17/2/13 at 12:32 PM |
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I've been told I need little braking effort at the rear and when I used sierra rears I had to sinificantly turn the down.
This time I will be running dual circuit bias pedal box, not a bias In line valve.
I'm looking for weight saving and I have another use for my sierra calipers.
[Edited on 17/2/13 by Benzo]
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CNHSS1
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| posted on 17/2/13 at 12:35 PM |
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have you tried the VAG group rear calipers? bolt up to sierra mounting holes and some are ally. They are sliding single pot and come in various bore
sizes, still overkill for a 'fag-packet' BEC, but less so than sierra or aftermarket 4 pots imho
ive used some and the Raldes versions and the problem isnt so much with the handbrake mech as the lever. we all use handbrake lever setups designed
for drum braked cars (escorts, sierras etc,) and they dont have the throw/mechanical advantage required, to go over centre and lock the calipers. I
played about with extending the cable point on the handbrake lever itself and certainly helped a lot although being lazy i never perfected or persued
it as it was a track-only car
[Edited on 17/2/13 by CNHSS1]
"Racing is life, everything else, before or after, is just waiting"---Steve McQueen
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Benzo
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| posted on 17/2/13 at 01:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by CNHSS1
have you tried the VAG group rear calipers? bolt up to sierra mounting holes and some are ally. They are sliding single pot and come in various bore
sizes, still overkill for a 'fag-packet' BEC, but less so than sierra or aftermarket 4 pots imho
ive used some and the Raldes versions and the problem isnt so much with the handbrake mech as the lever. we all use handbrake lever setups designed
for drum braked cars (escorts, sierras etc,) and they dont have the throw/mechanical advantage required, to go over centre and lock the calipers. I
played about with extending the cable point on the handbrake lever itself and certainly helped a lot although being lazy i never perfected or persued
it as it was a track-only car
[Edited on 17/2/13 by CNHSS1]
Thank you, I will have a look..
At the moment my rear uprights don't accept any calipers so I will have to make up some brackets which means I've a blank sheet at the
moment in terms of mounting the caliper!
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britishtrident
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| posted on 17/2/13 at 02:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Benzo
I've been told I need little braking effort at the rear and when I used sierra rears I had to sinificantly turn the down.
This time I will be running dual circuit bias pedal box, not a bias In line valve.
I'm looking for weight saving and I have another use for my sierra calipers.
[Edited on 17/2/13 by Benzo]
Do the maths
Even with a Pinto engine these cars have as light rear weight bias with the driver on board, looking at your photo archive your car has little
static weight carried on the front axle, that means under braking your rear brakes will have to do between 33% and 40% of the stopping. Contrast
this with the Sierra donor where the rears only do about 25% of the stopping.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Benzo
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| posted on 17/2/13 at 04:43 PM |
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Thanks.
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deeceee09
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| posted on 17/2/13 at 05:18 PM |
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I have a pair of new HiSpec SVA Ultralite HB Sierra lug mount rear calipers for solid discs with handbrakes, cables to suit and Mintex 1144 pads. I
was asking £300 but would accept £275 which I believe is a saving of over £125. Could probably do a deal on just the calipers if you were
interested.
Cheers David
Treachery and old age will always triumph over youthful enthusiasm.
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phelpsa
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| posted on 17/2/13 at 08:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
quote:
Originally posted by Benzo
I've been told I need little braking effort at the rear and when I used sierra rears I had to sinificantly turn the down.
This time I will be running dual circuit bias pedal box, not a bias In line valve.
I'm looking for weight saving and I have another use for my sierra calipers.
[Edited on 17/2/13 by Benzo]
Do the maths
Even with a Pinto engine these cars have as light rear weight bias with the driver on board, looking at your photo archive your car has little
static weight carried on the front axle, that means under braking your rear brakes will have to do between 33% and 40% of the stopping. Contrast
this with the Sierra donor where the rears only do about 25% of the stopping.
Do the maths (as I did) and you'll find you need nowhere near that much brake force at the rear if you're running reasonably good
tyres.
You could ask someone who is using that arrangement on their bike engined 7? I wouldn't recommend it without having tried it. I'm using
205 front calipers as well, both on 240mm discs.
In my experience with 205s/106s the handbrake mechanism is just fine as long as it's not become seized. I'm not sure why mr coyote has had
so much trouble tbh!
They aren't straightforward to fit mind. I'm using 240mm mk5 escort discs skimmed to 8mm thick.
[Edited on 17-2-13 by phelpsa]
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aerodynamix
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| posted on 18/2/13 at 12:02 AM |
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Calipers
For the small amount saved it will be an expensive exercise to swap to lighter than the Sierra ones , as above the hi spec ones would suit the job
although will cost .
Mechanical handbrake calipers of any type are all prone to issues with performance although a lot of that comes from maintenance and lack of it
although I am referring to tintops in regard to this which rarely see the maintenance of most 7 type cars .
Westfield of course went from Ford type to VAG type alloy calipers (single sliding again) and is worth bearing the VAG type in mind although not a
favourite of mine.
If you are looking for MOT compliance , are you running an LSD , of course if you are the car will have to be tested with a decelerometer and not a
roller brake tester and my personal opinion on this is that very few cars fail this ..........
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Benzo
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| posted on 20/2/13 at 11:29 AM |
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Sorted with something now, Thanks.
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