Just had the call from the rolling road to say my car is ready to collect.

Replaced 1.8 pinto with 1.8 zetec (plus bike carbs) over winter. Also put in 2litre cams.

All set up the guy says it has 105hp at the wheels.

I wasn't expecting hundreds and hunderds of HP (i'm realistic) but is this about right? Not sure what to expect for trans losses etc

Your thoughts...........?


Thanks
Dan

EDIT came to £100 all in which i thought isn't bad at all. Sleaford Mini Centre in Heckington. Nice bunch of lads 01529 460049 (free plug too )

[Edited on 4/3/10 by dan8400]

If I'm not mistaken, that's only about a 2.0 standard Pinto power. Seems a bit wrong to me.

doing some fast maths and assuming high end transmission losses (20%) thats 131hp at the flywheel.

I dont know what these engines make though.

That looks like a bit low on power in general i would expect.

mmmhhh........that seems a little low to me too!

What does it go like? That's much more important than any figures from an RR session.

I never had my 1.8 zetec checked but it was considerably more powerful than my 1.8 CVH, and my Zetec was fairly well knackered.

Stu

[Edited on 4/3/10 by whitestu]

£100 crumbs thats cheep.

did you get the mjolt sorted?

What can i do to make it better? Timing?

Megajolt has been set by them too. How can i get the cams better lined up? Or wouldn't it run right if they were out?

The guy at the RR said it made good power.....?

Dan

quote:

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Originally posted by ashg
£100 crumbs thats cheep.

did you get the mjolt sorted?

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it could be that the cam timing is slightly out but the figure doesn't sound too bad.

take the bhp reading with a pinch of salt as it can vary due to atmospheric pressure engine temp fuel etc etc.

go out and drive it. if it feels faster and drives better then you have achieved your main goal.

Hard to say as the rolling roads all seem to vary on calibration. Some seem to be set to give "good" results. Whatever the calibration it's all down to set up. It's just numbers... it's the way it drives that matters.

adrian

Seems about right to me, but absolute numbers from a rolling road are pretty useless since there are so many variables, e.g. slightly soft tyres have a big impact on power at the wheels.

Seems low to me, had mine on the rollers at BB for a run up after usign them and a gas analyser to get my zx9r carbs set up.

So, my 1.8 with 2L cams, MJ + ZX9R carbs gave flywheel 155bhp.. 125 at the wheels.

quote:

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Originally posted by ashg
£100 crumbs thats cheep.

did you get the mjolt sorted?

---

Depends on soooooooo many factors- plus unless you've got the figures from another rwd 1.8 Zetec car run up on the same rollers you haven't actually got anything useful to compare it against! I've had engines run up on a rolling road I knew was pretty spot on showing a power output a good 20bhp lower than one I didn't trust to be accurate (nothing to do with the operator btw, the 20bhp more was on Pete Baldwin's' of Mini Miglia fame and he knows what he's doing! ) So when you pick it up have a look at the printouts and if you've got smooth power and torque curves and if it feels faster it's a result! Probably the only thing you wont have is a piece of paper with big numbers written on it to brag about down the pub

Ok, off to pick my baby up now. Will let you know how she drives.

I'm less concerned about the RR figures now, it seems that they can vary...

often wondered if they were calibrated or if they were just near enough. Pinch of salt taken ash

Dan

Glad you got it up and running ok, would say its a bit low, but as said above lots of RR varables 1.8 with RS1800/136 2litre cams standard would be around 130 at flywheel, so with carbs may expect bit more than this, can you confirm they are 2 litre 130 spec cams, not 115cams?. As for checking cam timing this is quite easy by wipping the cam cover off and checking grove in rear of cams. ive got a couple sets of 130cams in you want me to measure lift on them, which is the main differance i would think between 115&136 cams but someone might be able to confirm.

Have you still got the track day booked for Tomorrow?

[Edited on 4/3/10 by will121]

Sounds about right to me, the uprated cams are 130ps so over 100 at the wheels doesn't seem too low. £100 all in is realy cheap for a RR session, if you suspect they haven't done a good job then take it elsewhere, but it will cost you a lot more money to get very little if any hp gain! All ihmo of course!

Hi

The 1800 Zetec with the 2Ltr cams fitted is more or less Std 130spec. Now this engine is used in that format is so many race championships it's untrue. I have yet to hear of any rolling road results below 150 at he flywheel. Thats with the cams timed in as per ford on the 5mm bar.
With a little cam timing those 150 figures will rise to 165-175 depending on who's road is being used.

The only thing i will say on though is that all the above figures will be found using reliable ecu's not mega systems. This could quite easily be where there is some restriction or limiting of more power being released.

Cheers Matt

cant be a lot of restriction with megajolt for ignition can there matt? At the end of the day its a fully mappable 3d ignition controller - fairly simple bit of kit but with quite fine controller over the spark.

Not disputing your position, more interested to know what you think as someone with a lot of experience in the field.

cheers.

Got home. It it un-be-f***ing-leavable!!!

Such an inprovement over the pinto. It is really really quick. It was actually 110 at the wheels. The figures mean jack TBH because the smile factor is 11

Sounds amazing on bike carbs. Can't tell you how happy i am

Cadwell tomorrow... a good week

Dan

brilliant

well chuffed you got it all sorted bud, sorry i couldnt help more with the MJ issue.

[Edited on 4/3/10 by cd.thomson]

Don't worry craig. It turned out to need an expert opinion from brent and nitropixie. All help i have recieved from these pages has been like gold dust

The rolling road made such a difference. Had a sneaky drive before it was set up and now it's a woooosh machine

First time driving with a helmet today too. Not sure if i like it better that wrap around glasses but it's safer and wind noise is loads less!! Also got to get used to it before tomorrow

Dan

Didn't feel restricted Matt. Mind you, always room for improvement


Dan

quote:

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The 1800 Zetec with the 2Ltr cams fitted is more or less Std 130spec. Now this engine is used in that format is so many race championships it's untrue. I have yet to hear of any rolling road results below 150 at he flywheel. Thats with the cams timed in as per ford on the 5mm bar. With a little cam timing those 150 figures will rise to 165-175 depending on who's road is being used. The only thing i will say on though is that all the above figures will be found using reliable ecu's not mega systems. This could quite easily be where there is some restriction or limiting of more power being released. Cheers Matt

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hmm, im thinking i need to get mine rrd'd now! anyone recomend anywhere around sg13? just changed the pinto over to bike carbs

thought it would be a dry solder joint. they are very hard to spot especially when you are against the clock.

glad to hear you are happy with the new engine.

when it comes to bike carbs, having a proper setup on a good rr is like night and day. my engine was 100 times better after it was set-up properly on the rr.

have a great time tomorrow, just watch out for cold track/tyres first thing in the morning before the sun comes out

All is well then

My friend has a factory built westfield with a 1.8 Zetec on Jenveys. MBE ECU.
Westfield claim 155 bhp for this car. The engine was new at build and has now done 15k or so.
On the rolling road at Newark last year it made 138 bhp.
This figure, according to at least some people "in the know", is nearer the truth than 155.
So your 110 at the wheels could be a reasonably honest, not over-inflated result.
Have a great day at Cadwell!

Geoff.

Dan,that's exactly the way i felt when i drove mine with the newly fitted 2.0 zetec on tuesday.

It is a marked improvement over the 2.0 pinto.As said above dont worry about the figures and just enjoy it.
Can't wait to get mine on the RR and see what it makes now.

Andy

Lol Dave I am playing Nicely. I just thought that the figures sounded a tad low compared to what has been seen from many many different engines over many many different rolling roads.

It is however fair to say that in the majority of those cases the engine will be relatively fresh and will all be running on either twin 40 or 45 Webber's with varying choke sizes. With a set of Genuine 130 spec cams and cam timing with 45's and 36 chokes you would be disappointed if you had below 165 at the flywheel. But as is usual who's road and which operator. Most will know i only ever use one road and one operator for consistent back to back figures.

Now i wont start a debate on the megajolt systems etc but where cars have been set as good as they can be on a mega system. Improvements have been seen by switching to a DTA / Omex / Emerald ecu setup.

so with a set of bike carbs and a Mega system and assuming a relatively used motor the figures are not disappointing. And if it's road use only Who gives a monkey's . You'd be hard pushed to utilise the full potential very often anyhow. so keeping the engine lower spec and reliable will be of far more concern.
Lets face it using high lift cams that a championship insist you use and then leaving you with and engine that produces 192 at the flywheel with max power at 8200. But finding out that the followers give up at 7500 really is a bit pointless. As the majority of the kit car championship have found out. :-(

Cheers Matt

quote:

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Now i wont start a debate on the megajolt systems etc but where cars have been set as good as they can be on a mega system. Improvements have been seen by switching to a DTA / Omex / Emerald ecu setup

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quote:

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Originally posted by whitestu
Any idea what that difference would be down to? Aren't both systems just controlling the ignition timing?

Stu

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Not entirely. I did some bench testing and the MS unit i used at the time (v2.2 with MSextra code) showed some jitter on the ignition timing. IIRC something around 1-2 degrees @ 7000RPM. That would cause the MBT ignition point to not be used at all times, which COULD influence power output.

I'm pretty sure though, that other ECU's would more or less show the same jitter given the same crank angle input.

So there might be a *very small* difference in attainable power output, but it would be very small indeed (max 5bhp or smaller at a guess)

Megasquirt is a different kettle of fish really, the spark functionality was squeezed into a fairly low speed micro which was already very busy, hence the timing jitter. Using it with EDIS rather than on board coil drivers is better for this reason.

I would not expect the Megajolt Lite Jr + EDIS to exhibit any worse jitter performance than an OEM system to be honest.