Jeffers_S13
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 09:47 AM |
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Law regarding replicas ?
*Not sure where to post this thread*
Say I wanted to make a replica of a prodution car or a prototype car, what are the copyright laws regarding this ?
Surley all those naff japanese based Italian copies (you know the ones I mean) dont have 'permission' or do they ? perhaps they are seen
as no competition and are therefore 'allowed' by the manufacturer.
But there are some very good and very close copies of other cars around, one of the Diablo replicas even uses the same glass, where is the line drawn
between replica and A.Another car ?
Did Westfield get prosecuted because they plagurised the whole look AND concept of the original Lotus/Caterham without claiming it to be a replica and
trying to call it a car in its own right ?
Is this where the line is drawn, perhaps so long as you say its a 'replica' then your fine, does anyone know the answers to these
questions ?
Thanks
James
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spunky
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 10:38 AM |
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Good question, I don't know the answer, but read somewhere about a US company that produced a rather beautiful GTO 'copy' and were
sued by Ferrari and had to make subtle changes to the styling to get around it. They were very subtle as well, only a Ferrari fanatic would have
noticed them.
John
The reckless man may not live as long......
But the cautious man does not live at all.....
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Jeffers_S13
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 10:45 AM |
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Ah right, so did they claim it was a replica or did they just blatantly copy it ? Cant believe anyone would copy a Ferrari and then try to sell it as
a genuine Ferrari (!) so I guess they must have claimed it was a replica and didnt have permission, but then why would they make subtle differences if
it was meant to be a replica ? a bit of a weird one that.
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gys
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 10:49 AM |
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Isn't this covered by a 'Industrial Design Law' / 'Design Patent'. It normally expires after a certain number of years
IIRC.
There may be a difference between building one for yourself and selling them.
[Edited on 18/6/04 by gys]
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alister667
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 11:05 AM |
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I think the precident was set a few years ago when Westfield was taken to court by Caterham. What happened is that Westfield agreed to change their
chassis design as their chassis was so similar to the Caterham it was deemed a copy. What Westfield did was to make some changes to the chassis
design so it was obviously an 'original design' whilst still remaining a very much 'inspired' by the Lotus/Caterham Seven.
If you look in the classifieds you will still see 'Pre-Lit' (pre-litigation) Westfield cars for sale.
I suspect if you bought an Italian supercar and make a direct copy of it, bolt for bolt and sold it for 80% of their price - and the car was of
similar quality you'd get a few legal letters sharpish, however I don't think they'd bother for an MR2 with a fancy sideskirt!
It might get interesting if Ford start making the GT40 again. It is feasible they might try to 'protect' their trademark - however the
fact they haven't tried to protect it (to the best of my knowledge) in the past might count against them.
It definitely is a grey area.
Bear in mind I am definitely NOT a lawyer however!
Cheers
Ali
[Edited on 18/6/04 by alister667]
http://members.lycos.co.uk/alister667/
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 11:13 AM |
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I believe that anyone can make a copy of anything they like - as long as they don't try and sell it.
A one-off replica of a Ferrari may cause them to get uppitty, but I don't think they can do much about it unless you 'pass it off'
as genuine.
David
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Jeffers_S13
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 11:23 AM |
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Just an interesting fact, they sold the GT40 trademark/name for not very much ages ago and are intending to call the new car a GT, but are
anticipating that people will naturally refer to it as a GT40 to save them paying the vast amount of money the current owner would probably demand for
it !
Lets say it was 'potentially' for a 'potential' production run... 
All the comments here are a bit too 'hear say' ish, does anyone have any definate answers, I also thought that the copyright was lost
after a few years and I also would think they wouldnt be bothered about one personal copy.
Lets say however for this discussion...its only really the looks that would be replicated i.e the 'bodyshape' and styling and the genuine
car is still at prototype stage and will only be produced in small numbers when it does eventually get written off and go into production.
[Edited on 18/6/04 by Jeffers_S13]
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gys
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 11:55 AM |
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Not relevant...
[Edited on 18/6/04 by gys]
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mangogroove
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 12:41 PM |
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Robin Hood was taken to court by Caterham RH lost
Westfield was taken to court by Caterham WF lost
Birkin was taken to court by
Caterham Caterham lost........cause it was a side deal done by Lotus and its dealers in SA. Chapmans wife Hazel cut the ribbon that opened the
factory. I cant remember all the facts but a judge ruled that they had rights to manufacture as well.
Recently they set the lawyers on a guy called seven services in NI. He was working from home and registered his name. The Cats put thier claws into
the lad who was helping to sort NI owners cars as catervan dont have a dealer there. The point was that they maintain they have the rights to the
seven name 7 number caterham and one or too other things. The lawers went on to say that they had the right to defend against the 26 clones
copies look alikes ect.
If you badge a se7en use sutol badges as they arent as shitty as catalog cars.
What suprised me was Nearn and co never went after ron boy and Haynes!!
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derf
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 01:52 PM |
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I dont know about the UK, but here in the states, the law actuallay says that it is considered a production line if 3 copies are made in a month
period, and the revenues/profit can support 1 or more people's salary.
I also know that the Cobra replicas that are being produced here are under incredible scrutiny by Carol Shelby. I know he has sued a number of
manufacturers of the kits. I also "heard" that he actually has someone working for him that builds the kits to determine if they are too
close of replicas.
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 05:47 PM |
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I thought I read somewhere that the shape of a car was only copyright for 15 years, thats how Covin got away with their 911 copy, as the first 911
came out in 1932 (ish!!). The name is copyright forever if in continuous production. Dutton beat Ford with the sierra name because the Dutton was in
production before the Ford.
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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Simon
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 09:04 PM |
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I think it'll depend on the manufacturer!
When BMW bought Rover, they then took out a whole stack of copyright on the Mini design and name. I know of a company locally that was told to stop
trading on the name and another co that was doing Stewart and Arden Reps (these were Mini's from the 60's that were chopped and sectioned
(and looked fantastic) and BMW even thow they had no input to the design of orig car or the S&A product stopped the replica production!
I think with the Dutton thing, 'cos Ford could bully Dutton, it was agreed that they had the refer to their cars as Ford Sierra or Dutton
Sierra.
Tim Dutton now make amphibious cars. Aquada launched last year (and sailed across the channel by Sir Dicky Branson t'other day) looks and works
far better.
Oops
ATB
Simon
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Spyderman
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| posted on 20/6/04 at 09:43 PM |
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I understood automotive copyright to be 20 years or greater as long as there was no deviation from original design (within reason of coarse).
The Porsche 911 design was from the sixties, but Covin's version was of a more recent model (Turbo) and I was surprised they never closed them
down. However Porsche would not allow patern parts to be made which included windows. This made getting screens for Covins a scrapyard job.
Ferrari are very vigorous in their pursuit of copies. Even the older cars like the 250 GTO, but I guess that was more to do with their brand name
being used.
Terry
Spyderman
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 20/6/04 at 10:03 PM |
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I can get most panels for 911's from patern manufacturers, they just call them repair sections - they are surprisingly good too
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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