Nick Davison
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| posted on 19/9/03 at 01:25 PM |
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Which Paint To Use With GRP & Ally
Probably a question for Mark Allanson
What type of paint and primer could I use for both GRP and ally to give me the best results assuming that all H & S issues are covered?
Also which paint will be the easiest to apply and obtain a good finish with?
Nick
[Edited on 19/9/03 by Nick Davison]
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Peteff
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| posted on 19/9/03 at 07:06 PM |
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I used a cellulose primer and top coat on my nosecone because it's easier to fix if you cock it up, but it was o.k. first time. Aluminium needs
acid etch primer to key to it as the paint tends to crack and flake if it's not used. Just been reading something similar in the chassis section
I think.
yours, Pete.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Hugh Paterson
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| posted on 19/9/03 at 08:21 PM |
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What Pete says is the easiest, Cellulose is the cheapest way to go, Two pack will give ya better adhesion though, dont forget the etch primer on the
ally though or yer wasting yer time.
Shug
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 20/9/03 at 05:55 PM |
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You MUST use an etch primer first, I am going to use 2K because I can!
You have a choice of cellulose or synthetic
Cellulose is REALLY easy to use and repair if you have a little mistake in the paint, dries quickly, is very forgiving in varied conditions of
temperature and humidity.
Synthetic (known as sticky in the trade) is faily easy to use, it can be used hot or thinned. It takes ages to dry so there is more chance of getting
flies, small children stuck to the car as it dries. It needs a full cure time before you can nib out any mistakes (about 3 months from memory to be
safe), and can only be overpainted with synthetic or it will pickle up and look like an MG dashboard. Once applied it is VERY tough, has an amazing
shine straight from the gun and about 1 litre would finish a locost with enough to spare to re do a few panels if you are not happy with them, and it
is cheap.
Personally if I was painting at home I would chose sticky because it will never peel off, microblister if the GRP was slightly damp when painted. I
would buy 2 litres to make sure I had enough to repaint the car if required (the colour matching of synthetic is not good)
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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Noodle
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| posted on 20/9/03 at 07:50 PM |
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Mark,
Is synthetic also known as "knacker laquer?" or 1 pack?
Neil
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 20/9/03 at 08:15 PM |
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Never heard the phrase 'knacker lacquer', but is also known as 1k, as is cellulose
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 20/9/03 at 08:43 PM |
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mark
I think you have referred to 1k as acrylic in the past....?
If so, is this the same stuff thats in spray cans?
atb
steve
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 20/9/03 at 09:10 PM |
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1K means one part paint - as opposed to any paint which required a catalyst/accelerator/hardener. The 'K' bit is kumpfbanstumfer in german
or some other word that sounds like a kraut being sick.
I forgot to mention earlier, NEVER use synthetic metallic, it looks totally crap, evil to put on right - the metallic particals can
'shear', that is even if you don't get a run in the paint, the ally bits will run and form rivers or curtains of silver
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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Peteff
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| posted on 21/9/03 at 08:25 AM |
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Is synthetic also known as "knacker laquer?" or 1 pack?
Would that be the Max Factor Knacker Lacquer that gives your cluster that added lustre .
On the paint, I've used the 1 pack in the past and if you do need to do patch repairs it doesn't feather out same as cellulose but you
only need to polish it, not cut and polish. Get some good top coat thinners for the cellulose, not too fast, and you can get a decent finish straight
from the gun. Also avoid the truckcoat range, Maxmeyer I think, as it goes dull after a couple of years. O.k. on a fleet of Transits but not on your
pride and joy.
yours, Pete.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Noodle
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| posted on 21/9/03 at 09:19 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
Would that be the Max Factor Knacker Lacquer that gives your cluster that added lustre.
Pete,
You mix in some strange circles
Cheers,
Neil
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 21/9/03 at 08:32 PM |
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DON'T use any thinners with synthetic other than the thinners recomended by the manufacturer, Celly thinners will break down the paint
chemically and you will end up spraying fragmented pigment and broken down binders.
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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Peteff
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| posted on 22/9/03 at 10:55 AM |
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The spares shop that my wife drives for does PPG now and I've been using that (because of the discount). Their high flash celly thinner is a
fair bit dearer than the base coat and primer thinner. The label says nitro thinner and it really does make life easier, keeps a good wet edge with
the gravity gun I tend to use these days. I keep looking at the HVLP versions but I don't do enough to justify the price. One day though.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Nick Davison
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| posted on 22/9/03 at 11:01 AM |
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Mark
Synthetic sounds good but if it takes such a long time to dry, with the inevitable problem of dust and flies etc sticking to it and having to wait
such a long time before any remedial action can be carried out, isn't it going to be a problem to use and get a good finish in a home workshop,
which is probably not as clean as could be? I take it that the H & S precautions don't need to be as severe as with 2K and well within the
scope of the home user.
If I wanted to use 2 pack what would I have to do to ensure the H & S is covered and what additional equipment would I need?
Also what is the SP with Polyurethane paint?
This is a bit of a voyage of discovery at the moment for me so I want to look at all the possibilities good and bad.
Nick
[Edited on 22/9/03 by Nick Davison]
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 22/9/03 at 03:06 PM |
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when I sprayed my metro, I lined the whole of may garage - roof and floor included - with thick pvc sheeting - the damp proof course grade, not the
thin sandwich bag stuff!
It keeps all the dust and crap down. If you spray in the spring, moist air and bugs will be minimised and help the finish.
Im tending to think I might go 1k. Im concerned with how cellulose might react with the gelcoat on my car.
atb
steve
[Edited on 22/9/03 by stephen_gusterson]
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Nick Davison
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| posted on 22/9/03 at 03:35 PM |
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Steve did you have any air extraction for the dust from the overspray?
Nick
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 22/9/03 at 06:18 PM |
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Steve,
You're right about celly and GRP, the thinners are very agressive and can damage the gel coat if not properly isolated.
In a home garage, air extraction will suck all the dust from the entire neibourhood onto your car!
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 22/9/03 at 08:52 PM |
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Mark.
You told me that about celly, so I cant pretend to be the expert!
No, 8 years ago when I sprayed it I didnt use anything but a simple mask. But im still here and had 112% lung efficency in a test 2 months ago.
Im not risking it next time. I have one of those expensive 25 quid charcoal masks which I hope will do the trick.
Failing that, rig up some kinda air feed from outside to a similar mask.
atb
steve
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 22/9/03 at 09:10 PM |
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Your body can breakdown cellulose over a period of time (organic origins), synthetic although not poisonous will line your lungs and never break
down., 2K ..enough said.
If you rig up an air fed mask, don't supply it from a piston compressor, small amounts of oil are passed into the air and these will be almost
as bad as synthetic.
If you spray synthetic, remember the overspray will still be wet (celly overspray is just dust) so it will coat anything it lands on - usually next
doors car!
There are so many issues with spray painting, just make sure you have all the angles covered
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 22/9/03 at 09:32 PM |
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I had thought about the compressor thing - originally I tried to use one of those electric tyre ones when I did the metro. Provides about enough air
for a hampster!
atb
steve
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Simon
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| posted on 23/9/03 at 08:41 AM |
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You could use a reverse flow vacuum cleaner.
It'd give good pressure behind a mask to stop anything coming in, and oilless!!
Just make sure you emptied the bag first, and make sure it has a clean air supply!!
Probably be better to use an old hairdrier, that way you could have slightly warmed air blown through, which'd be nice if it's a bit
chilly
ATB
Simon
[Edited on 23/9/03 by Simon]
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timf
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| posted on 23/9/03 at 08:59 AM |
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what about an air compressor with colasing filter etc.
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Peteff
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| posted on 23/9/03 at 10:37 AM |
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Air fed mask.
I used one at a workshop when I did a bit of work for a friend painting plant machinery. It ran off the compressor line through its own regulator and
filter which clipped to your belt. It was a full face perspex visor and I think the filter was an activated charcoal one. You didn't even smell
the paint till you took the mask off.
yours, Pete.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 23/9/03 at 04:26 PM |
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my 25 quid, twin cartridge, charcoal filter mask is like that,,,,,you cant smell a thing.
atb
steve
quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
I used one at a workshop when I did a bit of work for a friend painting plant machinery. It ran off the compressor line through its own regulator and
filter which clipped to your belt. It was a full face perspex visor and I think the filter was an activated charcoal one. You didn't even smell
the paint till you took the mask off.
yours, Pete.
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Nick Davison
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| posted on 24/9/03 at 09:27 AM |
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A I see it ther is:
1. Cellulose
2. Synthetic - 1K
3. 2 Pack - 2K
1 & 2 are ok to use a home 2 giving a better finish but taking longer to dry, 1 being easy but not such a good finish.
3 easy to use and provides a good finish but bad on the H & S front.(So what is so bad with 2 pack?)
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Nick
[Edited on 24/9/03 by Nick Davison]
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Spyderman
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| posted on 24/9/03 at 11:19 AM |
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Isocyanate is the catalist for it (Cyanide).
This stuff is lethal. It can be breathed in or absorbed through the skin and attacks the central nervous system of your body.
You could take all the precautions and wear an air fed mask, but the spray dust has to go somewhere and if vented outside without the proper filters
can contaminate the neighbours or your house.
Don't mess with it unless you have a proper spray booth!
Terry
Spyderman
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