smart51
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| posted on 11/4/08 at 11:18 AM |
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Alternatives to glass fibre?
The nice coloured plastic we all stick to our cars is reinforced with glass fibres. The polyester in its self is brittle and would crack or shatter
on impact. The fibres hold the plastic together and make it tougher.
My bodywork will be non-structural so doesn't need the tensile strength of glass, so could other fibres be used instead? I was thinking of
heavy cotton cloth, perhaps denim. What do you think?
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jabs
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| posted on 11/4/08 at 11:28 AM |
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They use cloth when making custom speaker enclosures but then re-enforce with glass fibre
http://www.girlsnmotors.co.uk/car-modifying/custom-boot-install.html
Sorry if it's a bit pink
[Edited on 11/4/08 by jabs]
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smart51
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| posted on 11/4/08 at 11:31 AM |
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Good site, if a bit pink like you say. I'm looking for something to completely replace the glass. Not for any particular reason other than to
explore alternatives.
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balidey
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| posted on 11/4/08 at 11:31 AM |
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I wouldn't use a textile fabric. But there are thousands of other mat options. I've use some Dialin before which was a woven fabric, I
think it was a polyester fibre, can't remember the full spec, but it was really light in GSM. Even just a lighter glass mat will help you
out.
Speak to a specialist supplier about what they have to offer.
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dhutch
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| posted on 11/4/08 at 11:31 AM |
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Why would you try and use denim/cotton?
- Not saying it cant be done. Ive seen people paint through canvas as a cheap alternative to epoxy sheathing wood.
- But by the time you've forked out for the polyester/epoxy i would have thought the glass cloth, or even CSM, was a negligable cost?
I have most of a roll of 180gsm cloth if your after just a small area i could stick it in a jiffy bag for you for the cost of postage.
Daniel
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clairetoo
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| posted on 11/4/08 at 11:33 AM |
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A lighter alternative to chopped strand mat is woven cloth - but it needs a layer of CSM to give it some rigidity as woven on its own will be very
flexible (if its too thin it will flex too much )
Havnt heard of anyone using denim though .
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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richardlee237
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| posted on 11/4/08 at 11:38 AM |
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The beauty of glass fibres are that size for size they are stronger than steel, they are resistant to acids and alkalis, do not absorb liquids, does
not stain and is non toxic.
Denim is easy to wear !
Quote Lord Kelvin
“Large increases in cost with questionable increases in performance can be tolerated only in race horses and women.”
Quote Richard Lee
"and cars"
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 11/4/08 at 11:45 AM |
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I use cotton bed sheets! for my r/c plane models, it's great stuff when used with epoxy resin, never goes as hard as glassfiber so doesn’t crack
or split in a crash 
Has an attractive flower pattern too 
[Edited on 11/4/08 by Mr Whippy]
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smart51
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| posted on 11/4/08 at 11:50 AM |
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I've made some sample pieces using 2 layers of 600g woven roving with a 300g layer of CSM in the middle. It made a very stiff laminate that was
thin and light. It withstood hammer blows well too.
Canvas is sturdy stuff and I can see no reason why it wouldn't make a good reinfocement for nonstructural applications. I think that's
what tufnol is made from. I'm just thinking out loud really.
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blakep82
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| posted on 11/4/08 at 11:50 AM |
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wwll, carbon fibre can be used instead of any glass, so i don't see why others couldn't
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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edspurrier
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| posted on 11/4/08 at 12:20 PM |
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Canvas was good enough for aeroplanes a few years ago....
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blakep82
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| posted on 11/4/08 at 01:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by smart51
The nice coloured plastic we all stick to our cars is reinforced with glass fibres. The polyester in its self is brittle and would crack or shatter
on impact. The fibres hold the plastic together and make it tougher.
My bodywork will be non-structural so doesn't need the tensile strength of glass, so could other fibres be used instead? I was thinking of
heavy cotton cloth, perhaps denim. What do you think?
ooh, important question, why would you not want to use fibreglass?
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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Delinquent
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| posted on 11/4/08 at 01:28 PM |
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As Mr Whippy says, cotton bedsheets are great (though I went for tartan, rather than flowers - the big ponce)
woven glass doesn't need CSM to gain rigidity, just orient the cloth correctly (and question if you actually need rigidity, or if some give
could be a benefit)
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 11/4/08 at 06:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by edspurrier
Canvas was good enough for aeroplanes a few years ago....
Better yet, silk. Light and immensely strong. Natural spider silk is the strongest.
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
I use cotton bed sheets! for my r/c plane models, it's great stuff when used with epoxy resin, never goes as hard as glassfiber so doesn’t crack
or split in a crash
Has an attractive flower pattern too
[Edited on 11/4/08 by Mr Whippy]
Mental.
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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russbost
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| posted on 11/4/08 at 06:48 PM |
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A friend of mine has a plane & was showing me round another belonging to a mate of his - it's a 40's biplane (called a Stearman IIRC).
The wings & fuselage are covered in an incredibly light & thin material, but very strong, whcih reminded me of the tissue paper & dope
used on balsa wood model planes when I was a kid. Apparently it is a similarly applied material in that you put it on & then apply some sort of
dope or similar to tension it.
He gave it a name, but I can't recall what it was - can find out more if you want.
Oh & it can be painted - this was!
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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paulf
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| posted on 12/4/08 at 04:33 PM |
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Trabants were made from resin covered cardboard or something similiar.
Paul.
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smart51
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| posted on 13/4/08 at 01:22 PM |
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I have nothing against fibreglass, other than people use it without thinking. I'm just looking for alternatives to see what else could be
used.
No-one has come up with a good reason why not to use other things, so I'll have a bit of a go and see what happens. Canvas has a bit more
stretch than glass but less ultimate stretch. The laminate may be more flexible than GRP or it might be more impact resistant. It might be better or
worse.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 14/4/08 at 10:26 AM |
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The trabant uses Duroplast which is a phenolic resin reinforced with cotton or wool, and is moulded in a press IIRC. There was an interesting
documentry on TV some time back about the Trabi.
The reason people use GRP "without thinking" is that it's a known quantity i.e. it's widely used, reasonably inexpensive, well
documented construction and repair techniques, well understood lifetime and degradation issues. i.e. go with the crowd and do it once, or be a
pioneer with alternative materials and have to do it several times potentially.
Could always build yourself a nice light alloy body!
[Edited on 14/4/08 by MikeRJ]
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smart51
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| posted on 14/4/08 at 03:34 PM |
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You make a good point about being a pioneer. I think that's part of the fun of building a car to your own design. Otherwise we'd all be
building locosts.
Trabant used cotton in their pannels. BMW are using it on their X3, so I think it's probably OK. The only problem I can see is that cotton
doesn't stretch like wetted out CSM or drape like woven rovings but that's not the end of the world. I'll have a play and see
what's what.
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smart51
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 02:14 PM |
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I bought a cheap denim roll end off eBay and had a go. The cloth was 400 gsm and soaked up about 1.5 times it own weight in resin. I layed up 2
layers of cloth to see what it did. The cured laminate is very flexible, not at all like glass which is quite rigid when cured. I guess textile
cloth isn't suitable after all.
I suppose I could trim the car in the left over denim when I get that far.
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