I have the opportunity to buy a complete Firblade 893cc set-up from a currently running bike but have a few questions that somebody may kindly be able to help me with:

The seller says that the Speedo on this bike runs off the front wheel, if this is correct what sort of speedo are people fitting to Road going Locosts?

Secondly how interchangeable are the earlier Fireblade Engines? (893, 919, 929cc etc) Could I fit this 893cc Unit into my car and then replace it at a later date by buying just the engine unit and minimal ancillaries from one of the later bikes and using the electric and mounting from the 893? Or are they all completely different?

How much roughly would people pay for a complete 893 set-up? 20k Miles, runs fun, good gearbox?

Lastly I believe that AB Performance are the supplier of Fireblade BEC bits like baffled sumps, exhausts and the like, roughly how much are their bits (to get the engine running in a car) as there is no price list on the website. And I don't like to bother people on the phone with theoretical questions.

Cheers for the help

speedo u can have sensor off front wheel hub nuts that connect hub to disc or like mine a transducer that runs off the propshaft bolts, as mine does 10mph every 1k revs in top im not to bothered with speedo, just keep my eye on rev counter, mines 893cc carbed priced at about £1k with no dry sump & later models fuel injection so poss issue there, however if you go for a new 1000rr thens thats a completely different animal & lots more money £2k with dry sump costing another £1k

MK

westfield

i come on here as WSCC flatly refuse to have a BEC forum, the sump baffle is a simple sheet of aluminium, grind off those seat belt lumps on top rail as they weigh a ton, drill holes in pedals, drill holes in seat supports & remove runners if fitted, fit bike battery, modify RGB if fitted, uprate reg/ rectifier, fit a bike fuel pump with in line filter, dynojet with sock filter, uprate jets from standard bike 115 to 130 & uprate clutch springs to stronger blackbird ones, fit paddleshift, as colin chapman used to say lightness is everything, speak to andy as he knows everything BEC



[Edited on 16/2/11 by andyfiggy2002]

Cheers Andy

Who do you recomend as a supplier for the pump/jet/filter parts that you mentioned?

I know you said you don't like to ring people with theoretical questions but Andy will answer all your questions and give you his advice on everything you want.

As above, give Andy a call. Whether you buy anything from him or not he is just genuinely pleasant and very, very helpful

Cheers again, I'll probably drop him an e-mail first and see if he has a price list that I can look at. Then call him if I buy the unit.

The engine question is doing my head in at the moment. Do I buy an 893 Firblade and get the car finished and on the grid, or do I save and spend 3X the price on a ZX10R?

The car was designed to take a ZX10R but I believe my lack of experience in actual race driving may better suit a Fireblade and the upgrade to a ZX10R for the next season.

quote:

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Originally posted by Doctor Derek Doctors
The engine question is doing my head in at the moment. Do I buy an 893 Firblade and get the car finished and on the grid, or do I save and spend 3X the price on a ZX10R?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Quinn

quote:

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Originally posted by Doctor Derek Doctors
The engine question is doing my head in at the moment. Do I buy an 893 Firblade and get the car finished and on the grid, or do I save and spend 3X the price on a ZX10R?

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In my experience, that is exactly the type of question that Andy is very good at giving an experienced and knowledgable steer on

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My money, stick with the nice cheap blade while you find out how bad youy really are!

As per OP, £3-400 for the engine with loom carbs etc

Speedo off front wheel was the very earliest , later ran from sensor in gearbox, get a later set of clocks and the trigger from a later engine and and strap it near the prop bolts, speedo healer, job done

WTF is Andy Barnes?

however if you go for a new 1000rr then thats a completely different animal & lots more money £2k with dry sump costing another £1k



where do these prices come from 2007 blade complete kit £1500 tops 2010 blade kit very max £2k and they dont need a dry sump never had never will


893 blade 125 bhp 09 zx10 186 bhp
which would you choose

[Edited on 17/2/11 by yorkshire-engines]

quote:

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Originally posted by yorkshire-engines


893 blade 125 bhp 09 zx10 186 bhp
which would you choose

[Edited on 17/2/11 by yorkshire-engines]

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oops sorry for my ignorance malc, obviously u know what your talking about, just thought newer blades were very tall thats all, i'll get my coat

[Edited on 18/2/11 by andyfiggy2002]

Doctor,

Andy is the sponsor of RGB , he would be more than happy to guide someone who is joining the series.

I do not know what your financial status is but there are pro's and cons for each option. Blade is cheap and an easy install but to make the thing sing you will need to buy a decent airbox (Andy B does one) and install a billet sump and baffle plate. However, once you have done this you have wasted a lot of money on something you will rip out the next season (the bits won't be worth what you paid for them...). Note that the blade has a more fragile gearbox and there are very few good ones around. Usually they have to be refurbished to get them running at peak power and that will be more money than a ZX10 - hence why RGB is moving towards the new 1000cc engines.

To go ZX10 later, you will have to replace exhaust, change the fuelling arrangement (for fuel injection, ) new airbox/body mods to accommodate engine, change loom etc. as well as buying engine, new sump etc.

Personally (if you can afford it) I would bite the bullet once and just put a 2006/7 ZX10 in (don't bother with the 08/09 - its a more complex beast to get running with marginal gain and its more expensive). £1200-1500 gets you a good nick one so you will spend around 1K more to get what you want - in the long run it will be cheaper though. While you feel you won't be able to drive it to its full potential, keeping the same car from the off will give you time to just concentrate on driving the car and learning how to drive it faster. There are 2 guys in RGB running this engine (BobM is on here). I can't emphasize how important it is to have a nice stable, consistent platform to help improve your driving - I had an R1 phoenix for my first 3 years in RGB and it wasn't until the second season I really got to grips with it.

Just my tuppence worth.

By the way if you want to see what's involved in changing an engine over have a look at MK9R's blog about converting from Blade to R1 - http://www.austengreenway.co.uk/ its not as simple as you might think.

I am currently converting from ZX12 to Gixxer, and its a pain in the ars*e, I'd rather be out there doing testing and honing the car!

Cheers

Paul

the 893cc that i fitted in 2003 really started the BEC craze off, its bulllet proof & cost a £1k for everything, ive hillclimbed, sprinted, thrashed the balls off it & its still going strong, the reason i picked a 93 model was i didnt have to CAT it so was able to get through SVA emissions, not sure about IVA now, u can upgrade to 919 with only diff being gear linkage is other way round, both just need a simple ali plate sump baffle plate, westfield do one for pence, i uprated clutch blackbird springs, bigger jets if fitting air sock so if your on a budget go for 893, if moneys not an option ZX14

[Edited on 18/2/11 by andyfiggy2002]

Cheers guys, Some very helpful points all the way through. I will give Andy at AB a call later.

I feel it would help to explain my situation a little better, I have been building/running race cars for years now but this is the 1st car that I have owned and will be driving.

The fact is that I have a very limited budget to build the thing, each month I have a certain amount to put aside to spend on parts, this is the main limiting factor on completing the build. The actual building of the car is simple once I get parts.

If I buy an 893cc Firblade now I can just about afford it on my Jan/Feb budget, then I can can get it in the car and work on getting the thing on its wheels and running by April.

if I buy a ZX10R (the cheapest I can find is £1900) I will have to save for 4 months and thus there will be no progress at all until the end of June as I wont be able to buy anything else in that period. Or if I carry on buying a few parts it will take until September/October just to get an engine and running gear.

The comment below is why I am leaning towards a Firebalde

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Originally posted by progers
I'd rather be out there doing testing and honing the car!

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if your anything like me when i built mine you will have this insane urge to get it built quickly & want to enjoy driving the thing, i may only have a miserable 130bhp but at 420kg 0-60 in 4 secs & F1 soundtrack im happy but then again im not racing it, just enjoying the wind in the hair driving experience

More power more Power.

I looked at several engines from diffrerent bikes, then I looked at what engines are raced. This lead me to 2, R1 or Hayabusa.

Based on that I looked at cost and availability of parts, not only to build a kit car, but also for future power improvements.

If you are going to be happy with it in stock form, then yep the 893 will work. But if you have any inclination to make more power, then I am not sure the variety of upgrade kits and parts exist.

The last 2 things that drove my decision was around other BEC guys and displacement. The more people that have built the car with the same engine, the more support you have in the forums. Especially when questions come up.

With displacement, its always easier to build more power from a larger engine

Cutting cost based on the engine I would say is not the way to go, since its the heart of the car, I would say its the biggest decision.

if its from the heart my next wish & i say wish would be a ducati engine just for that fantastic sound alone, shame its not got the torque for BEC's tho

quote:

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Originally posted by Doctor Derek Doctors

if I buy a ZX10R (the cheapest I can find is £1900) .

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quote:

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Originally posted by progers

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Originally posted by Doctor Derek Doctors

if I buy a ZX10R (the cheapest I can find is £1900) .

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In the meantime put your monthly allowance towards all the other aspects of the build and save
Cheers

Paul

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If you're on a tight budget then IMHO deffo 'blade.
Pretty bomb proof and cheap as chips if they do blow (seen them circa. £350 for basic engine)
As others have said, baffle the sump, upgrade the clutch to barnett springs, maybe fit a sausage filter if you can't afford an airbox and after talking to Andy Bates (which is an absolute must!), fit one of his dynojet kits as he'll supply the exact size jets and needle settings etc. for your set up and I guarantee that it'll pull right through the rev range straight out of the box. (He spent several days on a rolling road establishing the exact requirements so that you don't have to.)
He may well be able to supply suitable s/h parts such as a 'zorst manifold, silencer etc.

Andy.

If your budget is that tight then fair enough go with the blade. The point I was making was that in the long run it will be the more expensive option if you then upgrade at a later stage i.e. in terms of cash spent.

Enjoy your build and come along to some of the meets this year.

Cheers

Paul

quote:

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Originally posted by andyfiggy2002
the 893cc that i fitted in 2003 really started the BEC craze off, its bulllet proof & cost a £1k for everything, ive hillclimbed, sprinted, thrashed the balls off it & its still going strong, the reason i picked a 93 model was i didnt have to CAT it so was able to get through SVA emissions, not sure about IVA now, u can upgrade to 919 with only diff being gear linkage is other way round, both just need a simple ali plate sump baffle plate, westfield do one for pence, i uprated clutch blackbird springs, bigger jets if fitting air sock so if your on a budget go for 893, if moneys not an option ZX14

[Edited on 18/2/11 by andyfiggy2002]

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Why not buy this

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/34/viewthread.php?tid=146576

More powerful engine, no need to buy a sump/baffle (comes in package) should be no more costly than the blade...

Paul

Yeah i agree, get that R1

Cheers for the help everyone, I phoned Andy at AB today who was incredibly helpful. Have decided to let the proffesionals sort me out with a proper engine for the RGB series.

quote:

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Originally posted by Doctor Derek Doctors
Cheers for the help everyone, I phoned Andy at AB today who was incredibly helpful. Have decided to let the proffesionals sort me out with a proper engine for the RGB series.

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What engine have you gone for? Are you getting it from Andy?

After talking with Andy I have decided to go for a properly sourced and fully prepared 919cc Fireblade from AB, if I went for a newer 1000cc engine I would have had to have cut corners. Instead I'll have a full engine package with the reliability and piece of mind that will bring.

With the Fireblade I can be out there on the grid starting and finishing races, learning the car and the tracks and enjoying racing. Then when Top Secret Project 'HHS' replaces the Life-Taker hopefully I can start challenging for some wins

Brillant, Glad your all sorted out

quote:

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Originally posted by Doctor Derek Doctors
After talking with Andy I have decided to go for a properly sourced and fully prepared 919cc Fireblade from AB

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919, is that FI that u can use a power commander with?

no the 929 is the fi unit..

over here in ireland in our Version of the RGB we can ONLY run 893, 919, 929 blade and ZX9R..

929 seems to have alittle more poke for the straights but there is very little in it and in my opinion alot more to go wrong with them (electrics wise) , never mind a fairly complex install when it comes to wiring (for me as i know nothing about electrics. im a nut and bolt man!)